There's a "culture of low expectation" in secondary schools. Do you agree?

[HelenMumsnet]

Hello. You may have seen/heard on the news today that Ofsted is warning that thousands of bright secondary-school-age children are being "systematically failed" at school.

And we'd like to know what you think about this.

Ofsted says there is a culture of low expectations in England's non-selective secondaries - meaning that, according to a new Ofsted report, more than a quarter (27%) of pupils who achieved the highest results in primary school fail to achieve at least a B grade in both their English and their Maths GCSE.

The most academically able, says Ofsted chief inspector Sir Michael Wilshaw, arrive "bright-eyed and bushy-tailed" from primary school, but things start "to go wrong very early. They tread water. They mark time. They do stuff they've already done in primary school. They find work too easy and they are not being sufficiently challenged."

Do you think this is a fair reflection of life at secondary school? Do you think your child's secondary school has a low expectation of its pupils/your child? Does/did your child "tread water" in Year 7? Do you wish secondary schools did more to challenge their more academically able pupils?

Please do tell!

EvilTwins - there are several active threads about teachers failing someones DC, one of a teacher bullying a DC, one asking advice on how to complain about the HM etc etc so please can the moral outrage.

Your colleagues are not the whole education system. All you are able to say is that all the teachers you know are committed to the job. If all teachers were similarly committed then why are so many reports scathing about education standards in this country? There is a limit to how much blame you can lay at the feet of Gove and his friends.

Obviously there are good and bad teachers just like there are good and bad employees in every job. I find it galling, though that stories of bad teachers are accepted (by you, Habba whilst stories of good teachers are pooh-poohed as not representative. You have popped up on a few education threads recently and seem to be determined to stir up trouble. I don't get it. What's your problem?

I don't agree with you therefore I am trying to stir up trouble????????/

I just find your contributions to threads like this a but pointless. You don't seem to have much knowledge, understanding or experience of the education system and you rarely make a reasoned argument. Why bother? This thread is a discussion about a specific issue. You haven't really contributed and, yes, your comments smack of deliberately trying to stir. Your only point seems to be to claim that committed teachers who don't allow clever children to under-achieve are not typical. However, the only evidence you offer is that there are other threads on MN about DC having a poor time at school. It's not the most convicting argument.

convincing

The OP is quoting Ofsted as saying that there is a culture of low expectations in UK non selectives. Whenever there is a thread about sink schools parents posts about problems with their teachers. There are currently various active threads about bad teachers.

I support those views and that makes me someone who is trying to stir up trouble on this thread??? I find it seriously worrying that someone as aggressive as you is actually a teacher.

Do you? Ah well, I can live with that.

This is a discussion site habba and certainly is open to all to give their views, it isn't a teachers only site. Your opinions are as relevant as any one else's. Most will agree that bullies have no place in education or on this site.

Who the heck put you in charge eviltwins?

Telling people that they offer nothing to the debate! You make yourself ridiculous.

Thanks peeps.

I'm still struggling to understand how agreeing with an official report on a thread started by MNHQ is me stirring things up but hey ho, sticks and stones....

But back to the OP....

This is the end result of comps failing able students: leading universities being asked to make offers to state school pupils with lower grades who potentially could have achieved better results had they had more input from their schools. www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10121834/Universities-must-recruit-3700-more-state-school-students.html
So now the universities have to put on the remedial teaching and potentially damage their academic standing in the international league tables by having to accept lower calibre students.

Oh dear. The point I was trying to make is that Habba has turned up on the thread, said that the comments of those who disagree with the report are not representative of state schools, given not evidence, trashed other people's views as anecdotal, then used the fact that there are other threads on MN about DCs having a poor time at school as hard evidence that there are crap schools and teachers out there. Yes, she's entitled to an opinion, but hell, so am I.

It would be nice to take part in a discussion with people who evidence/ experience to back up their views, and don't resort to predictable "gosh, I find it hard to believe you're a teacher..." tactics. It's an overused trump card that's not available to anyone else.

Habba first appeared on this thread to say that the committed teachers who were comment

Hit send too soon... The committed teachers who were commenting on the thread were hardly representative. I pointed out that this is somewhat insulting. Which it is.

And yet mumzy, two separate reports published today say that stare school children do better at university than their independently educated peers.

Can't link as am on phone, but it was in the Observer.

Evil all Habba did was point out that MN is not representative of the nation. I think we all know that to be true don't we?

And I think she's right. A thread like this of course will attract committed teachers in the state sector. No one's going to be arsed to come on and declare themselves a bit rubbish are they?

And yet common sense dictates there are rubbish teachers!

Yet by saying that she attracted your ire. You said she had no business being on the thread. You tried to shut down debate.

It was this that caused her questioning your capabilities as a teacher!

Yoy are entitled to your opinion. No one has said otherwise. Certainly not Habba. The only person telling anyone they have nothing to contribute is you!

The fact that there are threads on MN complaining about teachers isn't necessarily a proportional reflection of the general awfulness of teachers. People are more likely to speak out when they are unhappy than when they are content or particularly pleased. For every 'Oh my DC's teacher is so awful' thread there are likely to be multiple 'my DC is very happy with their teacher' threads existing in potentia but not materialising on MN, because people just don't tend to go on a forum like this to tell the world everything is just fine.

Think about it - how many times have you gone on MN to say you've had great customer service somewhere? The complainers tend to be far quicker to speak out, so what you see on MN is unlikely to be a fair representation of people's opinions of their teachers.

And yes, of course there are poor teachers and schools around. There always have been. In the past these have not been tackled because there were low-skilled jobs for people to go to. Now that is no longer the case, and so these schools are held to account, which is good.

I have my doubts as to whether Gove and Wilshaw are the people to do it, though.

There is no link between MN and teachers. Habba has no idea whether the views expressed here are typical or not. I don't believe there is much point joining a debate without evidence or experience with which to justify your opinions. This isn't a WWYD or an AIBU, it's asking for reasoned opinions about something pretty important. Maybe that's just the teacher in me though.

As for the Observer, I think earler this year they reported that 88% of state schooled grads achieved a 2:1 or better. Wheras 85% of independently schooled grads did.

That said, the Observer also went on to point out that this academic superiority didn't translate in the job market where 74% of independently educated grads went on to either professional/high status positions compared to 58% of state schooled grads.

The starting salaries were not comparable either, with a 3k difference between the sectors.

The Observer didn't create the report, they just reported it. There were two separate reports, both from universities.

Who said the Observer created the report?

Sorry- my misunderstanding. This is new data though, not based on the report from earlier in the year.

pointy
I think most of the problems with teachers lie in the fact that they are being asked to do too damn much!

The teachers that I come across as a governor, are being asked to meet unrealistic targets in a school already struggling with huge social issues.

Plus there is the issue of it being very difficult to get rid of crap teachers, an issue that their colleagues find every bit as galling as the governors, parents and pupils!

The report earlier in the year was from Bristol University.

That said, I'm sure the current data will be similar.