There's a "culture of low expectation" in secondary schools. Do you agree?

[HelenMumsnet]

Hello. You may have seen/heard on the news today that Ofsted is warning that thousands of bright secondary-school-age children are being "systematically failed" at school.

And we'd like to know what you think about this.

Ofsted says there is a culture of low expectations in England's non-selective secondaries - meaning that, according to a new Ofsted report, more than a quarter (27%) of pupils who achieved the highest results in primary school fail to achieve at least a B grade in both their English and their Maths GCSE.

The most academically able, says Ofsted chief inspector Sir Michael Wilshaw, arrive "bright-eyed and bushy-tailed" from primary school, but things start "to go wrong very early. They tread water. They mark time. They do stuff they've already done in primary school. They find work too easy and they are not being sufficiently challenged."

Do you think this is a fair reflection of life at secondary school? Do you think your child's secondary school has a low expectation of its pupils/your child? Does/did your child "tread water" in Year 7? Do you wish secondary schools did more to challenge their more academically able pupils?

Please do tell!

Yes, Cecily- probably the same sort of %ages as now. 14 year olds have all sorts of levels of literacy - I suspect not much has changed. The past is often a rosy tinted place.

curlew, I'm not sure I understand the point you are making in your Sat 15-Jun-13 10:02:45 post

Just that is sounded like either an attempt at humour on the teacher's part that a serious minded teenager didn't get, or a teacher bashing urban myth. I'm pretty sure I've heard it before actually

married - I recently questioned someone's opinion and I got told that she had three postgrad degrees so I can shut the feck up! So when you said that your boss has three masters degrees, was that just to make a point or does he really have 3 master degrees?

I'm asking because I have a Msc in Finance and I have never met anyone that isn't in academia who has two masters let alone three. I find that it's a bit like having 20 GCSEs ie a bit pointless after the expected amount.

I made a 'joke' about people speaking Latin in Latin America to a co-worker. A frend later told me that x was telling people how stupid I was. I suspect that the teacher telling the barrista joke had the same humour challenged audience.

Still don't get what you mean by 'Bloody hell, somebody didn't post this as a serious remark, did they??????'

I think there certainly was at my school (a while ago now to be fair). I was in top set for everything except French and I distinctly remember the very different atmosphere in those French classes.

We were just not expected to be able to learn everything.

It was a bit of an eye opener really and helped me understand that outside of the 1/4 of pupils placed in the top set, the majority of the school population was experiencing a pretty poor level of education.

There was extremely low expectations for most pupils at my school, I would say.

A few things strike me reading this. Firstly schools have been judged on progress from KS2 for about four years now, so whilst important to get Cs it is also important for pupils to achieve their potential grades. Here lies the second problem, the grades are not linear, so a pupil with a level 4A at primary will not necessarily be a 4A at secondary, this leads to parents thinking their child has dropped. Changing A, B, C grades to 8,7,6 will lead to further confusion.

At the secondary schools I know there are extra classes for boosters at all grades - I spent two days of half term holidays doing C/B boosters and there were C/D A/A* etc. running as well. I don't know many high schools in the north west where pupils are not set or streamed (at least in core subjects).

A lot of people seem to base their opinions on their own schooling or what they have read (which is always sensationalised worst case scenario). When I left school there were pupils with low literacy skills, who went on to do OK for themselves. For some pupils today literacy is still a struggle, no matter how much intervention is put in place. What needs to be produced is a system where education can suit each and everyone person from the academic to the none - pupils are feeling they are failing as they do not reach the magical C grade and it is this we should be looking at.

"Still don't get what you mean by 'Bloody hell, somebody didn't post this as a serious remark, did they??????'"

I meant "bloody hell, nobody actually thought that a teacher really didn't know the difference between somebody who makes coffees and a lawyer, did they?"

it's not about the teacher not knowing the difference curlew

Please tell me you don't think the teacher was being serious? You aren't using this as an example of "low aspirations" are you?

I am fairly certain that it was a joke but as that is inconsistent with Molecule's Dd being 'furious' and was posted as an example of low aspirations I thought it worth 'mentioning'.

Do you have a problem with that rationale curlew?

I mean the point generally curlew - I would wish your neighbours child the very best but that doesn't mean the system is effective. The child's aptitude and enthusiasm should be taken into account.

I read the barrister comment differently to be honest and in a way that links back to my argument about education v quals. Did the girl make herself clear? Did she say barrister or barista or just a poorly enunciated version of one or the other. I can well imagine my DH closing an interview pretty sharply with a prospective pupil who talked about barristahs and what his or her objectives were for the fewchah.

I hope the teacher's point was taken on board - it may have needed to be. Young people need to be aware that life successes are about more than paper qualifications.

And yes three masters - addicted I think and thought it gave her the right to progress professionally.

There may be typographical errors above btw - on phone (and in the bath)

"I am fairly certain that it was a joke but as that is inconsistent with Molecule's Dd being 'furious' and was posted as an example of low aspirations I thought it worth 'mentioning'.

Do you have a problem with that rationale curlew?"

I do actually. Because I find it impossible to believe that it was anything but a joke, and as the owner of a serious minded teenager myself, I can see mine not getting it and being "furious" about this too. And there are so many urban myths and "I have been reliably informeds" about how rubbish teachers it seems a shame to add another one.

"can well imagine my DH closing an interview pretty sharply with a prospective pupil who talked about barristahs and what his or her objectives were for the fewchah."

Let's hope he's not involved in recruitment, then

Scenario 1: Molecule's Dd says 'barrister', teacher hears 'barrister' and goes on to make joke

Scenario 2: Molecule's Dd says 'barrister', teacher hears 'barrista' and goes on to ask relevant question

curlew I rest my case - even ROFL.

I'm lost now curlew, are you saying that the teacher shouldn't have made the joke???

Er, I think we're agreeing, pckledsiblings, aren't we?

Dd is at a friend's so I can't ask, but think dd took it to be pickled's scenario 2. It might be an urban myth curlew, but dd certainly told me this is what happened, and I didn't in anyway mean it as a teaching bashing tale. Dd, up to that point didn't even know what a barrista was, so at least she improved her vocabulary that day.

In retrospect it probably was a joke, dd doesn't have much of a sense of humour, especially when it involves herself, and as up to that point in the discussion the other children had wanted to be plumbers, builders, nursery workers etc, it did kind of fit in.

If she had never heard of a 'barrista' then the play on words would have been totally lost on her, so no wonder she was cross/wondering why the teacher made such an odd remark.

It's up the with "what do you say to an English Graduate?", molecule. Presumably the teacher assumed your dd would have heard it before?

The coment "BARRISTA" is a totally ofensive and pathetic coment, it is demeaning kids who will be lucky to even get a job at "STARBUCKS". Is the joke saying its the end of the world if you end up in a coffee shop. They are very many people working in cofee shops who have been let down by education.

Also very bright people with first class honours degrees. Not that people who have not got a C in English G.C.S.E are functionally illliterate either.

Lighten up, beatback........!