Winchester College Open Day

[bico]

Anyone going this Saturday? Ds is in year 4 and keen to have a look, I think mainly because they have an 18 hole golf course .

Peterenas, the reawakening of this thread by a rather vitriolic attack has been followed by your comments which always seem to be the school equivalent of a politically biased broadsheet - opportunistic promotion of an unsubtle underlying agenda. This unfortunately actually diminishes and detracts from whatever useful /interesting contributions you could probably make.
Agree with Ladybird

That?s your opinion britishsummer, which of course is equally valid. Why, are you also one of those who?s afraid of an exposure of the realities of the school discussed on this thread?

The school equivalent that I think you have in mind does not need ?opportunistic promotions?. As a matter of fact, it needs NO promotions at all. It?s already being heavily promoted here on this Win Coll thread alone, having been mentioned at least a few dozen times already, not least by yourself. So there?s no underlying agenda on my part.

There are some very nervous parents out there thinking long and hard if spending £200,000 over the next 5 years for an education for their teenage child is justified or not. It would be good to let them have a better insight of the school, any school, and let them decide. And dare I say, the same kind of money could perhaps buy a better education elsewhere in every sense of the word.

Not an opinion just an observation on your posts Peterenas (and I assume just from this thread not a particularly original one ). It bemuses me when people feel the need to be competitive against other schools and it does n't add any real information to help parents' choices, just spins the information already there.
However I agree that any parent should know 'all that glitters is not gold' when considering a particular school. It would seem from this Winchester thread that the opposite may also apply.

Observation or opinion, the fact you mentioned it implies you believe in it. It certainly bemuses me no end that people feel the need to compete against other schools when as far as I?m concerned there is absolutely no competition at all, iyswim.

But it doesn?t help prospective parents looking at schools when supporters of that particular school go all defensive whenever adverse comments are made by anybody.

There is a difference between defensive and stating the true picture. Some of the stuff written on this thread and others about Win Coll Eton or even Billericay Comprehensive is is ridiculously fictitious and/or incorrect. If parents at these various establishments know something to be incorrect then they probably feel a need to correct it and give a true version as we do in so many other walks of life I don't think any normal person would regard this as defensive. Just as if the wrong occupation was accredited to me or even worse I was thought to be a vegetarian bunny hugger I would be quick to correct this misinformation.
I like other on this particular thread tried to answer questions about Win Coll in a honest way. Unlike others on MN posting about other schools I don't claim its a perfect school or suited to every boy. It has a slightly different approach than most others in particular the fact that its not a school for those who are heavily into team sports/that sport is by and large optional optional, the fact that it only offers the Pre U, some trivial decisions do seem a little odd at times. parents are definitely kept at arms length it is truly full boarding no going home for the odd Saturday night, those considering stumping up "£200 000 over the next five years" might want to know these things and also understand details about the admissions process/choosing an HM.
Other info I've given of course is purely based on my own experience our HM seems fantastic capable enormously caring, the food in my DS's house is by and large pretty edible although it is school food but then I'm not expecting Le Gavroche , none of the parents we've met are IMO opinion what I personally would describe as ghastly (having spent 6 years in a boarding prep I can spot a ghastly parent at 10 paces) they seems pretty OK but I do acknowledge that many are very pushy with exceedingly high expectations of the school and their DS's but as we rarely meet them for long so who cares. But as we all know my experiences wont be the same as others.
Peteneras I understand why you believe in Eton as I do in Win Coll; becasue its really working/worked for our DS's, your DS was obviously happy there and did very well as probably did all the other boys you knew, But as we all know there is more than one road to Rome and Eton/Win Col/Billeracay Comp or even those two great London schools SPS and Westminster don't have the monopoly on which of those roads is the best for all.

I agree with happygardening, it would be like saying Usain Bolt is a better athlete than Mo Farrar because he finishes his races much faster. Or that both of them are better than Bradley Wiggins because they don't need a bike to win races!

What this thread does highlight is the imperfect nature of the Open Day as a true representation of a school. If you are being shown around there will usually be one member of staff in charge of a group of 10-20 prospective parents. One or two annoying people in this group may well give other parents a negative view of a school which is not merited.

I was also struck by the unkindness of a couple of the comments about WinColl boys. It brought to mind a similar post about an Eton tour a few months back when someone took exception to the fact that the boys she met had obviously been chosen because they were very good-looking and super confident! The schools can't really win can they?

As a parent who had at one time considered WinColl for my DS I was interested to read this thread, and it has been very informative for the most part. Some people are obviously only comparing first impressions after one visit, and others are able to contribute first hand experience. Together, this give a pretty good overview of the school, and that is the joy of MN!

"better education elsewhere"
Finding that "better education or perhaps more correctly the right school means getting a variety of things right. I personally don't think its about Medieval building; our local high performing comp holds numerous services in our famous and beautiful local 12th century Abbey, or 30m swimming pools our local comp has everyday access to one of those or lakes the comp has the UKs largest water park on its doorstep. nor light bright buildings it has that as well and apparently the food is fantastic and cheap. If I wanted fab results my DS could have gone to one of the countries top 10 performing grammars also in my area. Its also not about a schools Alumni just because David Cameron went to Eton doesnt mean it doesn't mean your DS will be a prime minister if he goes there any more than your DS will become an obnoxious prat if he goes to the same school Jeremy Clarkson went too. This is why open days often leave us underwhelmed because its these things that are so often show cased, a friend oohed and arrhhed about seeing Byron's name carved a Harrpw but I doubt her DS is going to become a poet if he goes there. The current pupils you might meet an a open day might appear "pale and slightly autistic or "good looking and super confident" but that doesn't mean your DS will become either of those, a good friend is a hilarious but eventually after days of it a slightly irritating massive practical joker/magician he went to Marlborough but I know they are not endlessly churning out irritating pranksters.

Other factors have also to be considered logistics in my extensive experience should strongly influence your decision; friends (dad was an Etonian as were uncles great uncles grand father etc etc) felt that Win Coll was a ultimately in the ideal world better choice for their super academic DS but couldn't see the point of driving past Eton to get to it, we love SPS (it's so us darling) but a logistic nightmare now we're firmly ensconced in the "Shires". If you want full boarding don't choose a school where you've got pick them up on Saturday and take them back Sunday evening .
What I'm trying to say is that you have to feel comfortable at the school I personally never felt comfortable at the above mentioned high performing comp where DS1 went, nor when I visited the super selective grammar school I mentioned above, I also didn't feel comfortable at Eton there's nothing wrong with any of them in fact there's plenty of things that are very right just not for me. But I feel comfortable at Win Coll (as unlikely as that might appear to some) it works for me and works for my DS so therefore its providing him with a "better education" than he would get "elsewhere".

Thinking about what has been said. The couple of open days we attended put us off those particular schools although we should have known that initial impressions are often misleading. I think from what everybody says, some schools are slicker at presenting themselves in a short space of time and some parents are swayed by feeling that a school is competing for their child rather than vice versa. Logistics and certain requirements reduce choice down for most people as it did for us.
What made my DS feel comfortable with Winchester? He really liked the different types of boys and teachers he met at his two visits to Winchester as well as the boys he knew from his previous school who had chosen to go to Winchester. He likes the fact that there is no pressure to be cool or conform to a certain type (as pointed out previously in the thread Winchester certainly has many uncool personalities), he loves (most of the time) the education and that it is a sparky place full of interesting conversations and possibilities. He was/is happy with the boarding facilities and appreciates old buildings. That combination is not unique to Winchester or private schools and could well be a deterrent to others making their choice.

What an odd post Ozankoy and welcome to MN. Interesting that your first post is a personal attack.

You have absolutely no idea if what I reported is the question asked by your friend. The question I reported was accurate to my recollection and rather funny because I doubt that there were many parents attending the open day who genuinely had no idea or interest in their son's academic ability. Which is why the preamble was so memorable.

Clearly I only attend school open days to post fabricated rubbish. If that is the case then I suggest you get comfy as I've arranged a whole host of senior school visits for the autumn and will no doubt be sharing my thoughts and asking for others opinions.

As for the comments on my lifestyle you really have no idea but I stand in awe of the fantasy you have created for me. Thank you

Just seen the earlier post. Weirdly I haven't discussed GCSEs or A levels with ds. He has just turned 9 fgs!

Also, maybe weirdly, I am more interested in ds getting a good education than a collection of exam results. Div at WC is appealing for that reason although I am not able to form a view at this stage on whether it is a school we will revisit or not. Probably the hardest thing in this process is trying to evaluate what ds will be like when he is 13 and choose accordingly. 4 years is a long time and ds at 9 is nothing like the child I thought he would be when he was 5.

"some parents are swayed by feeling that a school is competing for their child rather than vice versa."
The reason why they feel like this is because the reality of the situation is that the vast majority of boarding schools are competing with others for your DC. They are struggling to fill their vacancies so of course they're going to roll out the red carpet for someone who is going to add £200 000 to their coffers over the next five years.

I wouldn't take Ozankoy's post to heart, he/she is perhaps a bit sensitive for the hurly burly of the internet forum. I think most people who have been to a school open day understand where you are coming from.

Enjoy your visits this autumn. I, for one, will look forward to your future threads .

Aha, there you are Bico. We thought we'd lost you. But now you're back, you do not disappoint. Entirely predictably defensive. I knew it!

Bico - "You have absolutely no idea if what I reported is the question asked by your friend. The question I reported was accurate to my recollection and rather funny because I doubt that there were many parents attending the open day who genuinely had no idea or interest in their son's academic ability. Which is why the preamble was so memorable."

(1) As to your first sentence, yes I do because I was standing right next to you when the question was asked. Your report of it was completely exaggerated and created an entirely misleading impression. Better to stick with the facts I always find.

(2) I do tend to agree with you, however, when you say that you "doubt that there were many parents attending the open day who genuinely had no idea or interest in their son's academic ability." It seems to me that most people are indeed more interested in what others are doing (for all the wrong reasons) than in their own lot in life. Luckily it's most and not all, my friend being in the minority (thankfully). In any event, I'm not sure I get the level of hilarity his simple question sparked. And I don't think it was ever suggested that people had no "interest" in their sons' abilities, just lacked any kind of benchmark against other boys who might want to go to this school. Given many of the open day boys were only in Year 4, it's quite conceivable that many don't have a clue whether their sons would be on track for a school like Winchester.

Sorry, I posted too soon. I meant to go on to say the following:

But for the more intelligent bloggers to this site, the Moberley's / Toye's HouseMaster's answer to the disputed question about the academic standards looked for at the time of interview was, in essence, that the candidate had to be supported by his current prep school (as a baseline). If he was not, or it was obvious the parents were pushing the candidacy through, you likely wouldn't get any further. He said there was a high level of candour expected from the prep school heads - and not limited only to the child, but also some feedback on the parents. Assuming support from the prep school, the boy would be interviewed. It takes about an hour. The Housemaster gave no guidance on the sort of subject matter discussed, other than to say it would start with an area of known interest to the child (as a warm up). This Housemaster did not like fidgets and said he looked for the ability to concentrate and focus, which is quite a big ask for a 10 / 11 year old. There are a couple of computerised tests (reasoning / codes / that kind of thing) before the interview. I recall him saying they are out of 60 and are impossible to prepare for. He said the results of these tests are put into the mix, but are not definitive and that he'd admitted boys getting 50/60 and boys getting 20/60. Other merits (sporting or musical or other) also go into the mix and each Housemaster differs slightly in what he looks for, but all Housemasters looks for a mix / balance in the house. This one is keen on music, but added that you don't have to be Grade 8 to evidence musicality. You can play purely recreationally and have taken no exams. So there seemed to be no receipe for success, and a lot of flexibility in his approach to admissions.

This particular Housemaster, Patrick Herring, will be leaving his post at the end of 2016 and a new (yet to be announced) Housemaster will start from September 2017. Contrary to Bico's report, the INCOMING Housemaster will be conducting the interviews for 2017 entry and Patrick Herring will not take part in them.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for your reply. It confirms that I didn't report or hear your friend's question as there was no one standing anywhere near me when the question I referenced was asked.

The open day was for boys in years 3 and 4. According to ds most of the boys he spoke to in the house tour group were in year 3. He said he thought they were pretty immature and there was quite a lot of messing around as we went round the house.

I think year 4 is ridiculously early to be visiting senior schools let alone doing that in year 3. However after that visit we had a school meeting where our head said we had to submit a list of schools we were considering. I didn't do that as I think there is plenty of time to do that in the next academic year. Ds is one of the youngest in his year so the cut off point for some senior schools will be later for him than some of his older friends and enable us to leave some of the possible registrations until year 6.

"This Housemaster did not like fidgets and said he looked for the ability to concentrate and focus, which is quite a big ask for a 10 / 11 year old"
Is it? My DS's interview lasted a good two hours, no computer test (maybe things have changed) and when we picked him up I could quite clearly hear then laughing together, labelled a "conversation" rather than an interview I think they even looked around the house at one stage so I don't actually think done like this it is a "big ask" frankly.
In contrast the SPS one was very quick and my DS found put himself put right on the spot and challenged they required him to really think hard and show a high level of organised thought and an ability to express himself well.

Patrick Herring will be the house master I'd meet if I chose to take ds back for another look in year 5, hence my concern that we would not get to meet the house master before having to make a decision on which house to apply for. The strong emphasis on house masters and the admission process at WC makes it very important to choose the right house. From what I understand the house is heavily influenced by the personality of the house master. If we were to revisit I couldn't see the point of meeting a house master that would not actually be there when ds went up and wouldn't interview him for a place. That is the difficulty of a having to make a decision so many years ahead.

With regard to the hour long conversation he said that he was looking for boys who could keep his (PH's) interest for that length of time. Ds would do that easily and is very musical too but that still doesn't mean it is the right place for him.

One thing that I didn't like was the gratuitous and disparaging comment about the admission tests used by the 'school near Windsor underneath the flight path'. I didn't see the point of the remark. No one had mentioned Eton so I couldn't understand why he made the comment at all. It just made him appear to be smug in effectively saying that WC is better than Eton because their admission process is better than Eton (in his opinion). Imvho both are excellent schools and both no doubt have honed their admission process to ensure they admit the boys best suited for their school.

I remember him saying that too, but entirely in a tongue-in-cheek and obviously jocular manner. It was nothing more than friendly banter between two famous, leading, rival schools.

"Gratuitous and disparaging"? You seem to laugh at all the wrong things!

'banter'? I must have missed the bit where someone commented on the admissions process at Eton but maybe that bit was during the house tour. It did seem a bit of a random comment from him but it makes sense if there was already on-going banter during the tour. The only mention of other schools on our tour was when someone asked where one of the boys showing us round had been to school previously.

It is quite sad to see kiasu schools, housemasters and parents alike always having to look nervously behind their shoulders to see what that other School ?under the flight path? in Windsor is doing. More worrying still is the fact that a school like that of Win Coll?s stature have to make it a point annually to ridicule other schools in its bid to win business because ?it's not the first time speeches like this have been made to groups of parents? in their Open Day. Times must be pretty hard down in Hampshire because a confident school has no need to stoop to this base level.

It is also hilarious to see parents go all pear-shaped and defensive, not to mention the hypocrisy that?s cleverly veiled behind ?helpful? messages ?wanting to help prospective parents choose a suitable school?, when their own school is being criticised . On the one hand, one has no qualms whatsoever in slating off an equivalent school?s cheap biscuits and then gets all hysterical when someone reported Win Coll?s stale-smelling dining room with underfed and malnourished boys. Actually more than one poster had said the same thing about the Win Coll food.

But of course, anyone who?d ever visited the School ?under the flight path? in Windsor will tell you all the ?cheap biscuits? stuff is written out of spite. For a start, the iconic Windsor school doesn?t do anything cheap. It?s simply not in their DNA! They don?t do plastic music stands and they don?t cramp 6 to 20 boys (or something like that) in a room. For a school which spends over £5 million annually on scholarships and bursaries alone, you can bet your mortgage (and all of your relatives?) they are not going to save and economise on . . . !!

And for an occasion like an Open Day, it?s more probable you?ll find a team of suitably attired professional external caterers manning the food tables at that Windsor school.

Likewise, when it was reported that pale and almost autistic-looking boys seemed to be the order of the day at Win Coll, we have #1 WC cheerleaders getting all worked-up and edgy and yet, would not bat an eyelid in telling us fibs about the equivalent school at Windsor putting out boys ?carefully chosen for their good looks? to meet parents on Open Day. Imagine, this supposedly to have been divulged to complete strangers coming to view the School by none other than the Head?s wife!

If you believe that, then you?ll believe anything. The hypocrisy in this entire thread is absolutely stunning!

As regards a better education and forking out £200,000 to a school widely publicised as very academic and nothing much else in return for just a handful of A/A (I)GCSE?s and equivalent Pre-U grades, in my opinion, and nobody has to agree with me, that?s pouring good money down the drain because one could get all that for free* in a state school.

For £200K I?d expect an education not only in the head but also in the body and soul i.e. a complete education of the individual. Yes, you get that in many good public schools elsewhere. Of course, everyone is entitled to choose and pay for a school they think is perfect for their child.

A quiet, non-competitive, nerdy introvert is not my idea of a man likely to achieve highly in today?s global world, I?m afraid. Not when you have hungry millions of ?never-say-die? ultra-competitive Chinese, Indians, Brazilians and the Third World etc. breathing down your neck!

Peterenas, I've changed my mind, I now think your posts are wonderful. I am starting to comprehend your particular sense of humour.

Peteneras i'd like to buy you a drink

I don't think i'll join you in the pub. Peteneras sounds loopy to me. Paralysis by (over) analysis

But that's the point of Peteneras' posts! I was slow on the uptake but he/she is obviously trying to make sure that we don't take all this school stuff too seriously.