Winchester College Open Day

[bico]

Anyone going this Saturday? Ds is in year 4 and keen to have a look, I think mainly because they have an 18 hole golf course .

Tanith - congrats, and well done to your DS. He will have a great time in WC with likeminded peers who all love learning, and thirst for knowledges. It's an excellent learning environment for the bright boys

Congrats Tanith and to your DS especially. Hope you had a good New Men's Day on Sunday and his Pater's inside tour. I think your DS' pleasant experience with Election is shared by many collegers.
It is very clear that these special sets and Election tutorials in the year or two prior are at best futile and well off the mark, and worse potentially dull the mindset College is seeking. A real pity that there is so many misinformation out there along with all the "experts" supposedly helping boys to get elected. However, Election and KS are not looking for the same things.
The few passing first and second hand comments heard about this year's roll were very complimentary. This September's JPs appear to be already well liked. I am sure your DS will have the best summer holiday ahead. The induction ceremony and that first afternoon in September goes by so quickly. Be sure to take pictures (to help remember) and enjoy the moment. From what you described, he will definitely enjoy being in chambers and the conversations they have within.

Tanith, your son epitomises what the Election process should be about. I think a lot of the boys at Winchester like learning but it would seem that those successful at Election have a particularly aptitude to enjoy tackling problems in what is often a non-conventional, original way.
It sounds as though he will thrive at the school

Tanith and her boy must be so deservedly happy. DS won Election too although our family hardly talk about our children's accomplishments except privately with close friends who are in the habit of celebrating each others good news. Tanith's news brought back all the strange emotions. This is a moan about my experience. Sorry about that.

With something like getting a Winchester scholarship, you really discover who your friends are. Like Tanith, we did not have tuition as DS decided to take the scholarship very late. Within days of sharing that decision with friends, one of them told a mutual friend "just watch how far he has to fall from there". We of course did not hear this until much later. It is odd because her DD won scholarship in one of the top girls schools. Most of our friends and family were very supportive. For years, some of these friends were openly praising DS's talents although we always played it down fearing that it would go to his head. We would always talk about his gifts and remind him to be modest and humble. Imagine my surprise when a few of them suddenly turned cold when I invited them to celebrate with us after he won the scholarship. It was then I discovered how intense the jealousy was among these friends. What was difficult to understand was that they all had children in top schools, some with full scholarships. The snide comments became more frequent, some directed at us, others were indirect in the hope that they would get to us. Some got to DS, "my mom said that you did scholarship just so that you could show off how clever your are" and of course he was hurt and end up in tears. I got teary with him and even angry. Is this really the sort of attitude you should be teaching your child I wondered. Why is it not enough to see your own children's achievements? Does it really matter if others achieve too or does it have to be your own children's exclusively. Does competition have to go as far as being mean?

Over the years, we have learnt to be more thick skinned, but the surprises never stopped. Even in Winchester, it is so amazing that parents of boys in other houses would make sweeping judgment about my character and that of all collegemen just because they are scholars. Yet, they would not think twice about boasting to anyone and everyone that their DS were in top set this top set that and what prizes they had won within minutes of meeting them. So what house is your son in? Unless the one asking has one in College, you can predict the change of demeanour that follow the answer. So many times, they have said things like my son would have made it but he chose not to, it was all just for status. Thankfully, the boys themselves generally do not care about any of that. At the drop of a hat, you hear moans about the general public's attack on the independent school system and how unfair it is to be judged that way. Why can't they see the hypocrisy in what they say and how they feel about scholars? So, I have stopped going to school functions other than those in College even if it meant more sweeping judgement for not mixing with other houses. There are of course perfectly good natured parents in other houses who more than make up for the unpleasantness.

I hope this does not dampen Tanith's joy. Winning Election comes with baggage and no matter how you handle it, it follows you around.

I guess I should add a wee bit about us, as we're maybe instructive and Tanith's ds is likely to hear about it.

Ds (who is now home & at day school & fine) flew through Election and started in College last September. He fell apart almost from the first week, made it to just before the end of the first term and then was out.

I think ds may have been a 'perfect storm' in Winchester terms, in that Election tests not only on the spot applied braininess but also depth and focus - you can't do the maths or the French (eg) unless you know the curriculum - and depth and focus is unusual without being a diligent sort of child. Ds isn't 'diligent' - he's lateral and questioning and synthetic, and no subject or discussion is too challenging for him to get interested & engaged in & go off and do his own research on - but he was utterly hopelessly overwhelmed by the pure amount of obligatory written product as homework and class work. But that he would be like that was invisible from his Election results, and we did not anticipate it.

This will be no problem whatsoever to a conscientious child, and my feeling is that generally a non-conscientious child wouldn't get through Election. But poor old ds did, and it was an experience not to repeat - and I wouldn't want any other parent/child not realising just how tough the pace is, not just intellectually (that's fine) but in pure words-on-paper output.

I am very glad ds is out of that environment, and funnily enough it meant an exact release from that 'baggage' the previous post described.

Bink

thank you for such a refreshingly honest post ....it is a invaluable insight ....sounds like your DS is thriving at his day school ...i am tossing the day vs boarding coin myself and think I will keep both options open til i know better how my DS matures by 13...having a smart child is not all ...I also don't know how conscientious and self driven he would be in a boarding environment especially at such an academic school and I think there's a premium on being like that that at Winchester.

Bink it sounds as if your ds had a terrible time and I'm glad he is settled now at day school. Had he boarded before he went to Winchester or was this his first experience?

terms of use

I am genuinely curious - you said Election and KS are not looking for the same thing ...what are the differences in your view? (I have little clue but note the comments above on what kind of boy makes Election - but they both look incredibly tough is Election harder than KS or just different?)

Bink, perhaps your son is so bright that he finds it difficult to conform to the self organisation that is needed in boarding school. Not sure if he had boarded before but if not, a first term of boarding in a fairly intense school with no time to think his own thoughts certainly must have been a very unpleasant experience for him.
Does he do a lot less formal work at his day school so that he has more time for creative thinking?

When we went to the Open Day a lot of the boys ds met were at day schools. I think it must be pretty hard to go from a day school to a boarding school like Winchester without any previous experience of boarding.

I also thought that the way the house system is structured at Winchester made it seem rather claustrophobic which may be an issue for some.

I would also add that for a more normally bright child the set work in the lower years at least is supposed to be done in the 1hr 45 minutes of prep time. I suppose for the very bright they might find it difficult to decide when to stop an essay or researching a topic but otherwise the work should n't be overwhelming.

I think the boys both scholars and non scholars are expected to work exceedingly hard the pace is tough and words on paper out put when compared with other schools is very high. There is also no drama/music/art in the academic curriculum unless you choose to do it (no drama at all) although all are also available as extra curricular activities. Div alone (which is only examined internally) sets one piece of written prep week and from what I can see written standards/expectations are exceedingly high especially in comparison with prep school level so for many the whole thing must come as a bit of a shock. Many will be used to being "top" of their prep and find themselves in the 6th set for maths etc. with some seriously able boys way ahead of them. I also suspect the very able are under considerable pressure to produce work of a very high standard.
Boarding as I've repeatedly said is not for the sensitive in any school you need to have a slightly couldn't care less attitude otherwise you are going to be battered around my the intensity of living in close proximity to 60 others and at WC those 60 others are going to be highly intelligent articulate and argumentative at times.
All these factors could easily create a stressful and unhappy experience for a child regardless of how academic they are.

Bink, how nice to 'see' you on this thread. I don't know why I lurk on all the Winchester and Eton threads! The other day I came across the 'dreamers' thread when searching for something and it was interesting in hindsight reading back all our various experiences over that couple of years.

I'm sorry that things didn't work out for your DS at W and hope he's happy where he is now and back home. Funnily enough, in some ways his experience is a bit like DS1's at his day school, where lack of diligence and inability to apply himself to anything he's not interested in is still proving a trial. No social problems and everyone agrees he's charm personified (not to me of course) but revision? research? long essays? DS2 is now at the linked prep school and, though he's found the transition tough too, is just more mainstream in his approach to tasks. I hope your DD is enjoying herself!

bico I think your right when we looked at senior senior boarding schools for my DS the response was frequently "we really like boys from ....." this was in the days when 98% of the school had full boarded since yr 3. In my experience and I think my DS,would agree those who've never boarded at prep take the longest to settle if they start full boarding at 13. I suspect part of the reason for this is that it is often at this age that children are significantly changing both physically and emotionally.

Bico

I also agree with the comment about the house system at Winchester seeming a bit "claustrophobic".........unfair perhaps to compare, and perhaps it was wholly subjective, but I didn't get the same impression after the Eton tour though I can't put my finger on why one felt that way and the other did not

By the time ds reaches 13 he will have been c

Stupid phone

By the time ds reaches 13 he will have done compulsory weekly boarding for four years so he'll know whether he wants to continue that at senior school.

It will be interesting to see whether we find other boarding house school structures to be the same as Winchester. I don't have that feeling with his present boarding step up although I wonder if I would if he was older.

Sorry I meant ds will know whether he wants to do full boarding at senior school. I'm not keen on him going somewhere where he has to come home at weekends because that's what everyone else does.

I can't compare with Eton as we did n't tour or apply. Maybe it is because Eton has a more campus feel that the house system feels less claustrophobic? Certainly for Winchester boys who are involved in extracurricular activities in addition to the mixing that goes on in lessons, their circle of friends is large and the house system does not sound claustrophobic although boys may find it initially easier to have close bonds to other boys in their house and are certainly very loyal to their houses. That is probably true of most boarding schools. Even in schools with central dining, boys tend to sit in their house groups I believe.
Settling into boarding is easier for those who like to be social and who are more organised and self reliant but as in day schools many can muddle along very happily with help from the staff and their friends

britishsummer

I don't want to hijack into a boring EvW thread at all (I am genuinely looking at both of them assuming we do opt for boarding and my DS is smart and lucky enough to make the cut) and you may be right, I only saw W once - it may be the "campus" feel of Eton itself, it may have been the weather (Eton was on a nice sunny day, W on a cloudy day), and it may have been the facilities (larger own bedrooms vs six to a small dorm), it may also be because boys get entrance to Eton first then the house second whereas W seems perhaps more house centric, because admission is more the other way round, or because team sports or sports in general are more compulsory at E than at W so there is more forced mingling so to speak, and then some houses at E don't have in house dining so they go to a communal dining place (which looked like a canteen) albeit at their own tables based on house, - like I said I can't exactly put my finger on it - and it's a very subjective impression.

Amber, I did n't think you were making it into E v W.
Just saying that from what I can glean W does n't seem to be claustrophobic but perhaps it does depend on whether the boy needs a push to mix.

Amber. Sometimes, as parents, they may look unreasonably hard (perhaps we have forgotten or we are not not that interested). So, it is best to let your DS judge how difficult they are. Teachers and tutors always want to do that, but the initial determination should come from him.

I thought the w house system was comforting if you hadn't boarded before or you came from a small prep school. Also , the slight scruffiness and the hm's dog made it feel very homely. Ds liked the idea of his toy.

Ds took a scunner to the matron and the twyford crew, alas. I know he would have been happy and thrived now, though he woukd have had a tough 2 initial years, and I still feel that issue about maths for the moderate, and have just said to DH I still regret him not going there. DH, a wickhamist, disagrees and thinks that the initial misery would not have been worth it and that Ds dis not want to board was important.

Again, it is about the right school for the child, as hg knows so well, and I would suggest you take your Dss ' views seriously. It will be their lives and I think the days of I went there so you must should really be over. Their instinct, even if badly expressed , is useful.

We came down to two schools with Ds, one boarding, wc, one day. Both had the features and characteristics we were looking for in principle and excelled in slightly different things. We then discussed with Ds over a period.

What is right and how to approach it will vary from.family to family and child to child.

Our head told us not to take ds to school visits. I can't imagine visiting schools without him as he has very clear ideas and expectations.

Xvisitor. To be fair, not true that ALL scholars do not care about the fact that they are scholars and the same is true about parents. It is probably biological that if your offspring does well, mine is deprived of some of the opportunities and vice versa. We can blame evolution. Not suggesting for a moment these justify anything, but morals aside since when do prejudices need justifying.