Better to be bottom of top group or top of next group in science?

[Iamnotminterested]

Thoughts welcome. I know that DD is working at the level of the middle/bottom third of the top group in science in year 7 (because they all discuss it, don't they? :-) ) but is in the second group. What would be the advantages/disadvantages of staying put and to be in the top % in her current group versus moving up?

Some schools only allow the top set to take triple science, so that may be worth checking out.

bottom of top set

If there is significant overlap between the standards of the sets (and children don't divide themselves tidily into 30s or whatever class size), then they are likely to be covering the same topics. So it dosn't really matter. Will you have a chance,may at a parents evening, to ask about whether there is much difference?

But if say, only the top set will be given the chance for single sciences when they come to make GCSE choices, and if your DD is sure she wants to do that, then yes try to get her moved up. If however there are many children at this level split between the two sets, your best chance is for DD to work in a way that shows she really is securly performing at a higher level than everyone else in 2nd set.

Are they about to have exams, and will they all sit the same paper.

Are you being offered the choice, OP?

That's what I was wondering TOSN

No parent's evening now until year 8.

Don't know about any more tests this academic year.

The idea is being discussed at present.

Putting the question of what subjects it will allow her to study to one side, DD1 would perform better at the top of group 2, and DD2 better at the mid/bottom of group 1. So to do with how the child responds to placement too. In this family anyway.

I've done it this year for ds3. It meant sacrificing the triple for the double but I would rather he get a 2 Bs or even a B and a C in the double than 3 Ds or lower in the triple and he's not a natural scientist anyway.

Do ask what exam the second group do before moving as the criteria for science A levels is often the triple

As a science teacher I would say you need to base it on the individual student- some work much better with the "challenge" of being at the bottom, others need the confidence boost of being at the top of the next group in order to do their best and would give up if they were constantly chasing the rest of the set.
I would talk it through with your son and his teacher to see what might be best (if you have the flexibility to choose)

Sorry- your daughter not son, got confused with reading the replies of others.

Haven't really given much thought to the science options at GCSE.

Isn't year 7 a bit early to thinking about it (she's only little! )

Depends on your dc and the set situation.

If they're doing different levels at GCSE then it's a bigger consideration, as there may be a limit as to when they can swap to the other set.

If they're lacking in confidence, they may be better at the top of the lower set. They understand quicker than others, and have the confidence of getting higher marks.
If they're a bit lazy and will coast at the top, they may work better with the challenge of better ones. Dd2 works enough to keep out of trouble, so she'd be better in the higher one, as she wouldn't end up the top of the second one, she'd end up middling.

Year 7 is nottoo early to be considering GCSEs.

Some schools begin their science curriculum in year 9, whihc means the decision as to whether a pupil sits double or triple is made in year 8.

DS2 spent much of his life (primary and secondary) bouncing between top and second set (maths and science). He would find the pace of the top set a bit too fast, give up and go down to second.

This would completely demoralise him, and he would drop to near the bottom of set 2 for a while, then get his act together, go up to the top.

He would then be promoted to set 1 and the cycle started again!!

In year 8, when in set 2, I was told at parents eve he was due to go up again, and I asked if he could stay were he was. The school understood my reasons and were happy to facilitate this and he stayed in set 2 up to his GCSEs. Best thing that ever happened :)

I think it will depend on the kid; DS1 does best near bottom of the group (he rises to a challenge). DS2 does better working in his comfort zone, so better being top or near top. DD used to be like DS2 but is now like DS1.

I agree, depends on the child. My DD1 works better being towards the top of a lower set than the bottom of a higher set. I suspect DD2 may turn out to be the opposite.

I recently discussed setting with my son's maths teacher who said that some children do better at the bottom of top set while others do better at top of second set. If your daughter lacks confidence in her ability in science she might be better off top of second set. If she is someone who is inclined to coast given the chance then I think bottom of top set would be better.

My dd was given the choice of movi g up but we asked for her to stay in the lower set as she was really inspired by the teacher in the lower set.

My concern would be that the kids in second group might be less interested, less on task and more disruptive etc.

Thanks for all the replies.

She is a hard worker and very determined to be in the top set because she knows that she is getting better grades in tests and monitoring than some in that set. Will keep you posted.

Ooh, this came up for DS tonite, chatting with his maths teacher, and DS also expects he'll be moved down a group. It feels like a good move, to be honest, his teacher says he could easily imagine DS moving back up later, but it's worth a try to see if his actual standard improves with the change.

DD1 was at the bottom of the top maths group last year, and found it quite demoralising.

This year, she was in the lower group, and is getting on much better.

A friend's DD was in the middle group for maths but still got A at GCSE.

It depends on the individual. I had a boy in a top set English class who hated it as he knew he wasn't as capable as the others and he begged to be moved down. He was a very talented sportsman and was used to being good at things and therefore really struggled to deal with not being as strong as the others.
Some pupils like the challenge of being in a higher set and if they are hard working and willing to graft then being the bottom of the top shouldn't be a problem.