Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Changing the assessment of GCSEs whilst students are studying them.

48 replies

creamteas · 25/04/2013 15:13

Ofqual have announced that they want to change the assessment for GCSE English in 2014. They are consulting till June this year. They want to stop speaking and listening from contributing to the grade. see here

This means that students already in the first year of the GCSEs do not now know what they will be assessed on, and in some cases, work already done is wasted. If S&L is not going to count, there is not a lot of point spending much time on it.

Leaving aside whether or not this is a good idea (and I don't think it is), the idea that you can change a course when students are half way through is simply ludicrous.

OP posts:
Startail · 25/04/2013 15:36

Oh fuck and that's likely to be my dyslexic DDs best mark.

l'm already getting stressed by some six forms wanting B grade without them making it harder still.

All the CAs and different language and literature papers are a nightmare as it is.

English language needs to be a simple linear exam with very clear grade boundaries that isn't messed with. Y10-11 need to have faith in their predicated grades and know what they need to work on.

Also English is so important for employment and access to further study it must be possible to resit it in Y12 or as an adult.

bella65 · 25/04/2013 16:08

Oh do calm down. The exam is over a year away. I am a teacher and can tell you that teachers are fully capable of teaching what is required for the exam ( most of the time :) )

If all that is being changed is the S&L element then students do know precisely what they are being and not being assessed on so your point is illogical surely?

S&L forms a small part of the English GCSE and all it means is that those marks will be allocated to another part of the curriculum- it's not a big deal. Really.

bella65 · 25/04/2013 16:11

and BTW I fully agree with the proposal. The actual speaking and listening activities are very subjective, in terms of awarding marks, students have a massive amount of time to prepare for them, often work in pairs or groups- and it's quite right IMO that this should not be weighted as 20% of the grade.

Original poster
creamteas · 25/04/2013 17:55

Regardless of the merits or otherwise in this case, I object in principle to the idea that you can change assessment after people have started studying a course.

It is bad enough that Gove Ofqual seem to have very little understanding that the curriculum and assessment are interrelated and if you want to change the assessment you need to rethink the curriculum. This is clear in the sudden demand to move all exams to the end, despite the fact that they were designed as modular courses. But to then change the assessment in the middle of a course? If we did this at University level we could be sued as the module specifications and seen as legally binding contractual obligations.

Besides which, how can anyone have any faith in an examination system, if the goalposts are moved in the middle?

OP posts:
bella65 · 25/04/2013 20:48

But why compare it with university? Are you a lecturer or involved in setting uni exams? If not, then how do you know what would happen at uni?

The S&L amounts to 20% of the overall grade. The link you posted shows quite clearly how the marks will be distributed now. It's very easy to distribute that percentage over the rest of the English exam. I cannot honestly see why you think it's such a big issue, unless you feel that your DC is going to be disadvantaged by the change - or is your post just another dig at Gove regardless of the merits of the change to this exam?

ShipwreckedAndComatose · 25/04/2013 20:56

Bella, I think your posts are a little blunt tbh.

I can fully see how a parent might be concerned by a moving of the goal posts mid course even if you, as a teacher might be aware of reassuring information that points otherwise.

Original poster
creamteas · 25/04/2013 21:05

I'm a lecturer and yes, I set exams.

And no, I do not have a DC that are directly effected at all. My DD is due to sit this summer, and DS3 has not yet started his GCSEs (so he will know from the beginning what is required).

Wanting to change assessment is one thing. But to introduce what is effectively a retrospective change (students already studying are now uncertain as to what they will be assessed on) is fundamentally unjust.

And, as I said above, would be considered a breech of contract in other areas of education.

OP posts:
OddBoots · 25/04/2013 21:06

I agree, it isn't about the change, maybe the change is needed, I don't know but changing the course after it has already started feels very unfair, it gives a sense of uncertainty about the whole process.

bella65 · 25/04/2013 21:09

Wanting to change assessment is one thing. But to introduce what is effectively a retrospective change (students already studying are now uncertain as to what they will be assessed on) is fundamentally unjust.

But it's not! The S&L is a tiny part of the exam- it's carried out very informally in English lessons. The children will now be told that exam a) is worth say 60 marks instead of 50 and exam b) will be worth X marks. It won't actually affect what they learn at all- it will simply mean more marks will be available for some aspects of the exam.

I can't see why you are in such a tizzy over it.

Kez100 · 25/04/2013 21:10

My Y10 DC is likely to be disadvantaged. He is severely dyslexic and is looking at D/E for the written 80% but is very well spoken and very good at theatre, which he takes part in regularly, and likely to score very highly in S and L type assessments.

Despite this, if it wasn't relevant to English, I would agree with it being removed. However, I think it is very relevant to English. Being able to communicate verbally with style, thought and sensitivity is actually a really important part of life and one that is quite underappreciated in current study systems. Oral exams have been part of MFL since time in memorial - I cannot see why they cannot ensure an adequate assessment process for S and L in English too rather than it be taken away.

The other reason it isn't fair to change part way through a course, is that some schools may have covered it in year 10 and thus already used precious teaching time which other schools, who leave it until year 11, have not. It is not a even playing field.

IHeartKingThistle · 25/04/2013 21:17

YANBU. Sigh.

Original poster
creamteas · 25/04/2013 21:25

bella so if next year they decide that they don't like written controlled assessments or randomly decide that they now disapprove of Of Mice and Men in the middle of the two year course, would you still feel it is not a big deal?

It is not what they are doing, but the fact that they think it is ok to change specifications half way through the course that if the problem.

OP posts:
IHeartKingThistle · 25/04/2013 21:26

S+L is 20%. To change that mid-course is huuuge.

YoniOrNotYoni · 25/04/2013 21:27

Er, Bella, are you actually Mr Gove?

OP, I agree. It's absolutely ridiculous to change a course pupils are already studying.

ShipwreckedAndComatose · 25/04/2013 21:27

I can't see why you are in such a tizzy over it.

Try seeing this from another person's perspective, perhaps?

Kez100 · 25/04/2013 21:29

20% is not tiny and it is a ridiculous notion to say it is.

Ilovegeorgeclooney · 25/04/2013 22:24

So after last summer's debacle OFQUAL are still trying to act as if it is the teachers fault and they cannot be trusted. It is a big deal and as HOD in a school entering 350 pupils in June this year it will create a huge problem. They will have to change the structure of the exam if it is to be weighted at 60% and like many schools we teach most of the Language paper in Year 10 and focus on Literature in Year 11. With timing being so crucial in these exams, major changes will completely throw our year plans. I am getting increasingly concerned about the way English GCSE is the 'plaything' of OFQUAL/Gove without any concern for the pupils. Yet this qualification is crucial to their future. They have still not announced the changes to Lit which we are supposed to start teaching in September.
Perhaps they should turn up at schools and see the devastated faces of young people who have worked hard and had the rug pulled from under their feet for political machinations.

YoniOrNotYoni · 25/04/2013 22:48

I feel ilovegeorgeclooney needs a 'hear hear' for that. The more I think about this the more cross I get.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 25/04/2013 22:51

Bella, your utter lack of compassion and manners is very striking, and I'm glad I haven't encountered any teachers like you.

CouthySaysEatChoccyEggs · 26/04/2013 04:42

As Startail said, Oh fuck that's meant to be my dyslexic DD's best mark.

Surely they should start this for the current Y9's, not the current Y10's?

Could they piss about with GCSE's mid-course any more leaving my Y10 DD not knowing whether she's coming or going?!

CouthySaysEatChoccyEggs · 26/04/2013 04:49

My DD gets a D/E for the written part of her English work...and A/B for the S&L part.

Losing those marks will seriously harm her final grade.

To change it halfway through the course is unfair.

And her school focuses on Language in Y10, and literature in Y11. So chunks of work she has done in Y10 may now not be of as much use to her, and my DD won't cope with an accelerated pace in Y11 to make up for the loss of the S&L marks.

So blatantly unfair.

bella65 · 26/04/2013 07:58

creamteas now you are just being plain daft- removing a literature text and presumably replacing it with another mid course would be totally different.

Steamingnit I cannot see you making any constructive comments here- but you are using the thread to take a pot shot at me. Pretty sad really.

I think everyone needs to stand back and take out the knee jerk emotion- and actually think about the merits of the change. I have taught for so long that when I first began teaching there was no S&L as part of the GCSE/ O level exam. Over the years this element has contributed to grades perhaps more than it should in a way which does not represent what the exam should really be testing and proving to employers.

Yes of course being able to string a sentence together is important- but this is a GCSE- what someone has to do to achieve a pass grade in the S&L is not a good going to make that much difference in RL to their chances of getting a job. There are other ways these skills can be developed both in and out of school. It doesn't have to form part of the GCSE syllabus.

cornydash · 26/04/2013 08:10

well at the moment it does bella and that's the crucial point

mnistooaddictive · 26/04/2013 08:21

As a Maths teacher I am amazed (but unfortunately not surprised) that an English teacher thinks one fifth is a small amount. The course may need changing but you don't do it for students already on the course. It is one fifth of their marks and is unfair to change the goal posts.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 26/04/2013 08:42

bella I read this thread and lots of other education threads because I'm interested in education and have a child about to take GCSEs - and what I have seen on two threads recently is you taking a very arrogant and rude tone with concerned parents, telling them to 'calm down' and accusing them of being in a 'tizzy' about perfectly valid concerns. You don't strike me as being very empathetic, still less sympathetic, to parental concerns, and I find this worrying. I'm not 'using' threads to have a pop at you, but I have seen you on two of them posting in ways I would not expect or hope for from someone teaching my children. That is all.