Who can afford private schools in the UK?

[wjchoihk]

Hi. I am not sure if this is an appropriate question to ask here. But I have always wondered how rich you should be to send children to private schools in UK. Fees are anywhere from 3000 up to 10000 per term. Even allowing for wide gaps in income, thinking of 'avearge' UK wage of 26,000 pound, math simply don't add up for a normal life with such high fees. I also know only 7% of children go private though.

How much of private parents live on "inherited" wealth and how much on simply superior current earnings? I have my kids at SW London privates but I wouldn't be able to afford this without current int'l expat package. Some parents at my kids' schools LOOK and ARE very very rich but most of them LOOK quite down to earth. But I can't ask....

teacher - as I said upteen of times, I don't expect seeker or any parent to sacrifice what's best for her DCs on the altar of principles.

I accept that a parent that is against GS should send her DC there if the alternative is crap.

In seeker's case, the alternative isn't as posh as she would like but it's very good going by her testimonials. It's certainly not 'crap'.

If she is willing to compromise her principles simply because she wants her DS to go to a school with an orchestra and where the carol service is at a church attended by local dignitaries as opposed to the school hall, then I don't think much of her 'principles'.

I believe there are people who are in a position to make sacrifices in order to afford school fees. Obviously there are many that aren't in this position including myself.
However, I would never think oh poor me, isn't it a shame. You cut your cloth accordingly and if something isn't within your means you don't put others down who can afford it.
As for Grammars I don't know of anybody who wouldn't use them if they had a very child and lived very close to one. None of my dc have been particularly gifted in terms of intelligence but I would have gone for 11+ if they had been.

I think my problem would be worrying if my dc would fit in well with others if they were to gain a place at a school with parents and dc from completely different background to them. Has anybody experience here?

Socareless - I agree you cannot have it both ways. Did Seeker say that her DD's place was stolen - no of course she didnt. She got in.

However very convienent argument for her 2nd child. Their place has been stolen.

My older DS is in GSCE year. There is a subject he is struggling in. As we are private I do feel that we are paying stacks of money to get that extra tution, however if I thought that a couple of private lessons would help him of course I would do it.

Congrats for paying off the mortgage??? Wrong poster. Got another 11 years to go :(

Clearly I don't really known much about SM schools and I will readily admit to that. I see the distinction that is being made and I accept that I need to be educated on the difference between the two systems.

I can only speak of my own experience. I do not want my children to be educated at primary level within the state system. If I stayed in London this would not have been possible so I moved.

To my mind one of the things this country should be so proud of is having choice. What I find disingenuous is when people complain and criticise and complain and hide behind the "this was the only option". There is always a choice. The choice may be hard, sacrifices may have to made and times may be tough but don't say you have no choice. Follow the herd or stand and be accounted.

Coming back to this thread very late but yes, I do have an idea about what the top independent schools offer - I had a close friend who went to Harrow and sent his son there. Another friend had a sports scholarship to Millfield. We looked at Cheltenham College for our eldest. The thing you have to remember with all the theatrs and courts and astroturf etc etc. is that your one child can't use them all and may very well enjoy doing the normal teenage stuff far more. Of course if you do have a future Olympian in your family then the sports stuff is very relevant but for most of us adult life is about work and family and friends, not a development of our school extra-curriculars.

If I had ooodles of money and it didn't matter cost wise I'd use an independent secondary as an insurance measure, though I'm not entirely satisfied it is the best course of action if you have a good grammar available.
If you are on a budget i think it works better to pay for a prep school or private primary as state schools cannot be trusted with spelling and maths and teaching good order, table manners and all the other things they can't be bothered with

A little story. DS2 has a passion for Latin. His very small group were entered by their teacher in a Drama competition to act out a historic story in Latin, which they had to write and put together themselves. They did this and made their own costumes "Mars" had a belt with Mars bars glued to it etc. The other 6 or so schools competing were all independents and turned up with hired costumes and it was very clear that their teachers had written the plays. DS2's group didn't win but the judges made the comment that they were the only ones that stuck to the rules, and their play was the only one with any originality and humour in it. They got a "special award". I really wasn't sure what the lesson of this was. Even DS2 couldn't work out if this made it OK to; cheat, or if it was better to stick to the rules. I sadly mused that maybe you could buy an advnatage for your child and cheat and that it was all a bit sad.

Oh god how many times does it have to be said you can't opt out of a selective system by going to the secondary modern. The secondary modern is as much part of the selective system as the grammar school - they are two sides of the same coin. Seeker has been consistent in saying that she wishes she lives in an area with comprehensives. She doesn't in which case she has to make a decision about where to send her children - there is nothing hypocritical about going to a grammar school where no truly comprehensive alternative exists.
I'll repeat grammar schools don't exist without secondary moderns. History is written by the victors which is why you read endless paeans to the great social mobiliser of grammar schools but never equivalent ones to secondary moderns.
It's why people always say they're moving to Kent 'for the grammars'. They never say 'we're moving to Kent because it has a selective system and if my child doesn't get into the grammar then we're really happy with a secondary modern because some children, well they're not so academic are they, and I'm really so happy for my child to pushed in a vocational direction from an early age'.
Please stop attacking her when she has in fact been consistent. She has never used emotive language like 'stolen'. She has said that where a selective system exists, then a bright child is better off in a grammar school because they lack peers in a SM. I believe she'd still be anti the selective system had both her children got into grammars.
And breathe...

Oh and read this
blogs.ft.com/ftdata/2013/01/28/grammar-school-myths/
Statistical evidence as to how selective systems don't work as well for the whole population as comprehensives but how they particularly disadvantage the poor.

"Socareless - I agree you cannot have it both ways. Did Seeker say that her DD's place was stolen - no of course she didnt. She got in.

However very convienent argument for her 2nd child. Their place has been stolen."
At what point did I say anyone's place was "stolen"?

Morethan - how sensible! I would love to travel business class when we go on a long haul holiday. I am always the one wide awake on a 12 hour flight with 8 hour time differences. Everyone else is fast asleep. I wish I could sleep upright but I cant!

The cost is prohibitive. So I dont do it. I cannot afford it. Yes, I do get jealous (I cannot think of any other word for it!) when you peep through those curtains and see people drinking champagne and having a flat bed to lie on. Once I splashed out (there was a special offer on!) and it was wonderful but sadly it is just too expensive for me.

I would love to shop in Chanel and buy all their skincare and make up. I would like a cleaner (we use the money saved to go towards that long haul holiday) but I recognise that if we are going down the private route we need to make sensible decisions about what to spend our money on.

In answer to your question. There are all sorts funding private education, new money, old money, grandparents paying, couples both working etc etc. My DS's go to snazzy schools. The senior school is one of the top boarding schools in the country (whatever that means). It has been going for 100's of years. The cars are anything from a convertible Bentley to a Ford Focus, to a Land Rover so scruffy and covered with dog hair I would hestitate to get in myself and I love dogs.

Also dont forget that some of the most well know schools offer full busaries so you will get a child from say a deprived area who is exeptionally bright or maybe has a sporting talent.

I can honestly say that the boys dont care who you are and what money your parents have. Boys are looking for someone who will knock around with them, always up for a game of football or who they can ask for help when they are stuck on a subject.

My DS told us last week that he has been helping a boy who just doesnt get Chemistry. That took me back tbh (pround mum alert!!)

And I would just like to say for the record that it was n't me who decided that this thread should be about me! Or even about selective education.

morethan - how 'completely different' are we talking about?

We aren't rich but we are comfortable. As a result our DCs have travelled, have gadgets, their own rooms etc. Ok many of DCs friends family are rich and holiday 3 times a year and have holiday homes in Europe but we aren't completely different iyswim. It might be different if we were a minimum wage couple and DC was there because of a generous bursary and/or scholarship.

But speaking generally, judging from threads about school gate politics, bullying etc school life, whether private or state, is pretty much the same. So I wouldn't let fitting in be one of the deciding factors.

Thanks all. maisiejoe123 My DD is doing reasonably OK (I think..) SAT's at Y2 were no lower than a 2A. I am not interested in an purely academic school. I am hoping for a good all round experience and a school that can help her to achieve her best. For those following the whole thread and to bring it back to the Original Post, finance wise we are looking at options to either move and release equity or re-mortgage. Our household income for this area is lower than average, (around 45K) so I am still coming to terms with the fact that it may be plausible for us to consider it! Although Surrey is so expensive I have seen day fees at 20k pa, so I am searching slightly further afield! Some websites are showing example test papers so I guess if we can work the finance out I should check those out next!

Maisie.

Thank you for the benefit of your experience.
We are in the position of more than likely receiving an award for the full fees at a boarding/day specialist school. My dd is talented and we have been told there is no question of her not being offered a place. Although we would like to wait a couple of years yet, I am finding out as much as I can. We would be the bottom end of cars, a couple of steps up from a bike.
It is a difficult decision, one I've never had to make before. Other dcs just went to our local state schools as there really weren't any alternatives for us.

A close relative uses this 'but I had no choice' when it was clear she did or 'he made me do it, I didnt have any choice but to take his speeding points'. I jest not!

No one listens to her now tbh. Never has she said 'how could I have been so silly'. Hence she will always be the one saying its not fair, she once said to another relative 'you have everything I want, its not fair' having made her latest rubbish decision around men...

And it wasnt you totally I was refereing to as paying off the mortgage, it was Vienna.... I can see how it looked like it could have been you!

Succubi -in response to your question...

The majority of the UK has comprehensive schools. No selection is involved. Unless you go private, this your school. The rationale is that everybody, regardless of ability, is educated together.

A small minority of the country retain the old grammar school / secondary modern school system. The child takes the 11+ test and if you past you go to the GS. Everyone else goes to the SM. The rationale is that bright kids will do better if they are in a select environment and that less bright kids can get the attention they need if they had the full attention of their school.

seeker - it wasn't you that turned this thread into one about selective education???

You mean you was 'forced' into the discussion about comparing results from comp areas with similar demographics with your part of Kent.

I see a pattern energing. You were 'forced' to enter DC for the 11+. You were 'forced' to discuss the pros and cons of a selective education in a thread about how much it cost to go private.

Totally.

We are talking one min wage, deprived area, but house paid for. So we are lucky with no debts but that's about it. We rarely have holidays, dc have some gadgets and with dd being the youngest we don't have several others to put through education.
I don't mean to sound like an inverted snob because I like to pride myself on being able to communicate well with people from all walks of life, but I do think it worth considering. The day fees are 23K and boarding 30k, but fees are means tested for all applicants. I'm sort of hoping there would be a good mix.

To be fair to seeker, she has never said that her DS's place was stolen. Merely that the 11+ wasn't an accurate measure of a child's ability. She didn't seem to have a problem with the 11+ when her DD.was selected though

'To be fair to seeker' probably ranks with 'I don't mean to be rude' and 'the cheque is in the post' in its sincerity.

Nice one, Blueberry.

In my part of the UK (up the M1 but this side of civilisation ie south of Watford Gap :) ) day fees for prep is either side of £10k and about £15k for secondary. I'm talking about top 15 schools so you can imagine my at your fees.

I have no experience of super posh schools or super expensive ones. All I can say is that the parents I know are just ordinary people who just happen to be rich. No better and no worse than the ones at your state school gate.

Blueberry - despite what seeker likes to think, I only have a go at things she has said. I'm quite happy to raise my hand when others have a go at things I know she hasn't said.

If you think that i am being insincere then I''ll try not to let it cut me up.

Maybe not insincere, just the George Galloway school of debate. Play the man, not the ball.

Ignore, folks.