Who can afford private schools in the UK?

[wjchoihk]

Hi. I am not sure if this is an appropriate question to ask here. But I have always wondered how rich you should be to send children to private schools in UK. Fees are anywhere from 3000 up to 10000 per term. Even allowing for wide gaps in income, thinking of 'avearge' UK wage of 26,000 pound, math simply don't add up for a normal life with such high fees. I also know only 7% of children go private though.

How much of private parents live on "inherited" wealth and how much on simply superior current earnings? I have my kids at SW London privates but I wouldn't be able to afford this without current int'l expat package. Some parents at my kids' schools LOOK and ARE very very rich but most of them LOOK quite down to earth. But I can't ask....

Beck - I am not using seeker's actions as a litmus test on which system is best. I am merely making the point that she shouldn't lecture others for doing something she is doing herself.

Why is an eagar GS parent a bad parent for prefering a selective education for their child. Why does a reluctant GS parent like seeker get to occupy the moral high ground?

And she is not being forced to participate in it. She will be the first to sing the praises of her SM so it's not a case of seeker being forced to compromise her principles because the alternative is crap.

Isn't a secondary modern where all the kids who don't get into the grammar school or who enter the private system go? I can't see the difference between a SM and a comp to be honest. Sounds like exactly the same thing to me.

And if comps are only found in places where there aren't grammars then surely if you are against selection you simply don't let your child sit the 11+ and opt to mix with the majority at the SM which isn't selective.

Succubi, the argument is that Grammars cream off the "top" 20%. In a comp system those children would be educated with the rest.

As it happens I'm not anti selection but I have some sympathy for those who are.

Ok - seeker. You have 1 DC who is at a grammar and I suspect will do well academically. The sec modern will not be as good academically - its just a fact. If they dont stream it will be a free for all and a real mish mash of lessons.

So, I am interested now, - if you want both chidlren to have the same opportunities why not fund private education for the 2nd child? Otherwise there could be trouble ahead for your children and their view of who got the chances and who didnt.

I suspect the children not taking the test have been advised that they would be unlikely to pass it. I would be very surprised if they are making a stand against grammar schools and then happily discussing the best a-level options to study PPE with their secondary modern careers advisor 5 years later.

(Although I might vote for them as PM if they were)

Grovel I accept that they cream off the best which to my mind is a good thing. What I can't understand is why if someone who finds the concept of selection in this way abhorrent why you would then perpetuate the system you despise by allowing your child to sit the 11+. If you don't have the courage of your convictions it does smack of hypocrisy.

ffs Totally, I have never seen seeker lecture anyone on how they should educate their own children.

She is opposed to the grammar system, as am I. I assume she's not prepared to compromise her children's education for the sake of her principles. Neither would I in the same circumstances.

I don't think we are going to agree on this, Succubi. If you are given a choice you don't want I think it's perverse to take "least good" option to make a point.

You can still say that you should not have had to make the choice in the first place.

I think that comp's stream and sec modern's dont. But I could be wrong!

Isnt streaming the same as selection?

You pick children based on academic achievement and then put them somewhere else whether that be another school or another classroom

maisie - sorry but I should have published a list of seeker's bug bears :)

Sec Mods do stream and it really pisses her off when posters assume that they don't. It feeds into a beolief system where people in general look down on sec mods and where the people in her town look down on her school.

I never really understood the last bit. I mean it is supposed to be a deprived area so the sm is hardly some school in the middle of some snobby MC catchment. Also, given that the majority of people will.have DCs at the SM, it seems strange to post that the town people looks down on her school.

Anyway, i'm sure seeker will set thr record straight.... Or not.

Can I ask a quick question? There seems to be alot of discussion about passing the 11+ to get into GS, however; my research to see if we can afford to send our DD private has shown in Surrey most seem to have to pass a test to be offered a place regardless of whether you can afford the fee. Would we be required to tutor to get a place? I don't want to place my DD under any additional pressure...

Jena - is that is what she is really doing? She doesnt believe in something but joins in because 'she doesnt have any choice'

If she is she is just like the Diane Abbott's of this world, preaching to us about big bad selection processes and the brilliance of the state system for all and then using academic ability or money to opt out because of course - its different for her!!

Jenai - seeker does nothing but lecture other parents.

We are in a thread about private schools and how much it costs. This subthread only developed because seeker was telling people how insensitive it was to poor parents to describe forgoing new cars and holidays as a 'sacrifice'.

To be truly true to her own principles, Seeker would have to avoid her children participating in the selective system AT ALL. That means that they could go neither to the GS, NOR the SM, because BOTH are components of the selective system.

Which, as she has no comprehensive available to her, would leave them without a school to attend.

It would be no truer to her principles for Seeker to eschew the GS and sned both children to the SM, as it would be to eschew the SM and send both to the GS. Both schools - like it or not - are a product of the selective system.

Succubi - the word 'comprehensive' contains the point. A true comprehensive contains the full ability range, and caters for all of them. A school which has the top 20% removed is, by definition, unable to be comprehensive.

Grovel I think we can agree that you shouldn't pick the least best option. As I have said I have yet to meet a parent/parent poster who isn't striving to do the best for their children.

DS's comprehensive (technically a SM, as I live in an area with a few residual grammar schools) does not stream BUT it does set by subject. So a child who is e.g. good at maths but less good at languages is in the correct set for both - top for maths, lower for languages - and vice versa.

Much better than a crude streaming by 'overall ability' with no acknowledgement of variability between subjects.

They also don't set for anything except maths for a year, to gain a truer picture of how children from all feeder schools perform once in secondary, and once studying individual subjects, perhaps for the first time.

Vienna - a bit of normality at last!

Get a few brochures for schools, ask around as to the schools to look at, perhaps get access to the Good Schools Guide. You can subscribe on line for under £5 per month. I used it for one month, printed off what I needed and then allowed the subscription to lapse.

I havent tutored but tons have (but wont admit!). Get to know your shortlist of a couple of schools so that you can run by any questions you have. Bear in mind that they wont necessarily recommend tutoring but it is rife.

How is your daughter academically? Surrey is a great area. Lots of choice.

I als think that to say a comprehensive fails the top 30% is a wild, and in most cases wildly inaccurate, generalisation. The number of very able children unable to be educated in a comprehensive system is probably significantly less than 1% - similar to the % who, at the other end of the ability spectru, have such significant learning needs that they need to attend Special Schools.

There are parents who are opposed to the selective system who refuse to take part in the test.
Their DC attend the Secondary Moderns.
Their view is that if enough parents do this, the Secondary Modern becomes a comp.

In the same way that parents refuse to go private because they don't want to perpetuate the creaming off of middle class kids. Even if that means not taking up the better, more appropriate, education for their DC.

vienna - i'm not familiar with Surrey but speaking generally some will have a test but only to establish a minimum standard. I mean, their selling point may not be x% goes to Oxbridge but at the same time they don't want below average GCSE results.

If your DC is reasonably bright then a few light tutoring sessions should do the trick, if only so DC gets a preview of what to expect on the day.

But then again teacher, seeker will also tell people that most people tutor their children to death to get into GA stealing the places from the real geniuses. So from that explanation the SMS should have most of the too pupils and the lower ability group whilst the GA would have the average tutored, stressed out, sharp elbowed MC dcs

Top pupil

Totally - you have put it better than I did... Yes, the tests are gentle (unless of course you are looking at the hothouse/academic schools who do very well with the right pupils). There is a place for them too..

And well done for paying off the mortgage!

Getting back to the original post

We have three children, two are preschool and one in a state primary. We live north of Watford and DH is in the top 5% of earners. We live in an area that has really good state provision, DS is at a great state primary, good results and it is a lovely caring school. I hope that the DTs are able to go there too. Later options, we have great grammar schools in the nearby town which would be our preferred option, I haven't looked into those in detail or the other schools, bit young yet. We couldn't afford to send all our children to private schools, I don't work at the moment, but will go back once the DTs go to school, even then I don't think that we could afford £10k - £15k gross per child.

We are in the position that the state provision is really good, if one child doesn't get into the grammar school we would hopefully be in the position to pay for a private school for that child if we felt we needed too. I wouldn't feel comfortable paying for only one child to go private if the others were not able to go to a school that was suited to them, be that an academically focused school or not. Obviously pp have mentionned specific instances where a private school fitted the care and support that one child required, we have friends who are in that position. To do the best for a particular child, that child is in a private school where her brothers are in the state primary that she was out. They are stretching themselves to do so.

Had a wry smile at some of the posters making comments about choosing the size of your family, we didn't expect twins, were aiming for another one and ended up with two. This has completely screwed up our finances for 4 years, I am going to go back to work and hope that we can get them back on track. We have some savings for the children, hoping that these will be for university tuition fees but if required we would use some of these plus earned income to pay for any private school. I'm really hoping that we don't as I would like to have some short haul hols let alone long haul ones.

I don't see any difference between buying a house with an added premium in the catchment area of a 'good' state school and paying to go private, people use their financial clout in different ways. With the former though, you hopefully will have an asset that doesn't lose value (who knows with house prices, changes in schools though).

Thankfully ds's school doesn't stream. I didn't think many schools did these days. They set from Y8 (which might be late for some, but I think it's OK) in individual subjects, which is how it should be imo.

vienna there are past papers around I believe - I imagine it depends on the school and the entrance exam they use. Have a look on individual schools' websites for info.