Who can afford private schools in the UK?

[wjchoihk]

Hi. I am not sure if this is an appropriate question to ask here. But I have always wondered how rich you should be to send children to private schools in UK. Fees are anywhere from 3000 up to 10000 per term. Even allowing for wide gaps in income, thinking of 'avearge' UK wage of 26,000 pound, math simply don't add up for a normal life with such high fees. I also know only 7% of children go private though.

How much of private parents live on "inherited" wealth and how much on simply superior current earnings? I have my kids at SW London privates but I wouldn't be able to afford this without current int'l expat package. Some parents at my kids' schools LOOK and ARE very very rich but most of them LOOK quite down to earth. But I can't ask....

merry - are you seriously equating sitting on a top table at primary to sitting the 11+ exam and. then going to a school which existence you abhor, for the next x years?

Have just googled and from what I can see, only 55% of DC even sat the Kent 11+ test. So I'm not sure Kent can be classed as a 'fully selective area' for comparison to fully comprehensive areas...

This is the bit I dont understand. I fully appreciate that some people dont agree with private education or grammar schools.

What I really dont understand is why you would put both your children into a test that will select on academic ability and risk them passing and going to a system you hate!

I can easily understand. You may not approve of the choice the state is offering but it would be perverse to take the "less good offering" to make a point. Who would notice (or care)?

So, Marni - are you saying that you dont 'need' to take the 11+ in Kent. This is what I am trying to get my head around.

If you dont want your child to be selected on the basis of ability you dont allow them to take the test. If you dont turn up - what are they going to do - send you to jail.....

Most people would agree that overall grammar schools do a great job for the right child. That is why they are so popular.

I think what has happened here is that seeker actually wanted the GS for BOTH children and didnt get it, that's her gripe. Why allow your children to take a test where you dont want the option should they pass!

I like your explanation of the 'late blossomer' BOOKS! That was me in a sec mod & was laughed at for suggesting to the careers advisor that I wanted to go to uni - that is the biggest down side to the selective system. It is those in the 20-30% intelligence area that do very poorly. But in answer to SEEKERS question, I did know a lot of kids in the 30% & below intelligence range that did much better than you would expect in exams because they were given opportunities in the sec mod they wouldn't have had in the comp.
So I think overall the top 20% & bottom 70% do better in a selective system. It's just those in the middle that suffer. In a fully comp system, the top 30% at least suffer a poorer education as the time & resources are not there to cater for them. Certainly the case in our rural, no choice comp!

Re the 11+ in Kent, that's my understanding yes-it's not compulsory and I was surprised that only 55% took it last year.

Re Seeker, to be fair she has always said that she opposes selection, long before her DS took the 11+. But I agree that it's hard to get your head round why you'd allow your DC to take the test when you're so vehemently opposed to it, particularly when 45% aren't sitting it. Seeker always argues that both schools are selective, therefore she can't opt out. But I'm really not sure that's the case if the test isn't compulsory and so many opt out of it.

maisie - seeker did want her DS to pass. Hence all the posts blaming the Gods of the 11+ for not smiling on her DS on that fateful exam day.

I do understand SEEKER's point, that a selective system incorporates both the grammars & sec mods. You can't have grammars & comps because the comps need the top 20% as well to be comps.

So are we all agreed then? That nobody will be upset by people wanting the best for their child by taking a grammar school place? & if that is the case, can we all agree that given the opportunity we would send our child private if it was the best fit school for them too? Or am I pushing my luck hoping for a happy ever after?

BTW - for those looking at stats, look for boroughs not counties. You should find boroughs with 100% selective!

I answered the original question many pages ago. But on the question now being debated:

I see seekers point and do not accept that her actions are contradictory - she clearly opposes the system of selection, but finds herself forced to participate in it and therefore is making the best of the situation she finds herself in. In this case, her ideal is not available to her ie a comp, so she has to comply with either a GS or a SM. it is in no way inconsistent to continue to wish that the system were different.

And I don't know why one posters particular situation is being used as the litmus test on whether the system is right or wrong.

Well done, BeckAndCall. Very reasonable summary.

Well I agree pugsandseals. I think most people simply want the best education they can get for their child, and in an imperfect system people do what they have to do (and are able to do) to achieve that. I would never criticise another parent for the choices they make on that basis.

Not sure you'll get universal agreement though!

How can both schools (GS and sec modern) be selective.

You take the test and the children passing the 11+ go to the grammar school, the rest go to the sec modern. The sec modern isnt selecting anyone! They get the people who havent passed...

And I sort of understand when you say that Seeker had these views well before the 11+. However it goes to show how easy it is to be against something until it personally affects you!

I had a friend many years ago who was against terminations, she was a Catholic, it was against her beliefs and she became quite tiresome about it. It was only after a number of years that she revealed she had one herself. Her circumstances warrented it, she was different etc etc and I think this is what has happened here. Its ok to be idealistic but when it affects you and your family all bets are off!

Quite understandable really....

The children who pass the 11+ go to the grammar school, the rest go to the sec mod...as do those who didn't sit the test in the first place.

Sorry pugs but you are pushing your luck :)
seeker's GS isn't going to merge with her SM anytime soon so her best fit is to go private but she isn't going to be taking this option even though she can afford it.

There are so many things about seeker's thinking that I don't understand. This another one. She is against selective education but she will compromise her principles for a free selective school but not for a paid one.

Thank you grovel. Hopefully that will save another 20 pages of deliberate misunderstandings but I doubt it

"That nobody will be upset by people wanting the best for their child by taking a grammar school place? & if that is the case, can we all agree that given the opportunity we would send our child private if it was the best fit school for them too"
pugI'll watch with interest to see if the anti independent ed. brigade will agree with your statement.

That's not a fair summary, maisie. Seeker is against GS and SM. She favours a comprehensive system.
Given a choice she didn't want, she has had to go along with the system.

Good to agree totally!

"What I really dont understand is why you would put both your children into a test that will select on academic ability and risk them passing and going to a system you hate!"
You seem to be forgetting that the secondary modern is part of the system I hate as well! Whichever school my children went to it would be part of a system that I think is divisive and iniquitous. And I let my children take the test because I am opposed to selective education, not to setting. The sets my children belong in only exist in the grammar school where I live, or in a comprehensive school in other LEAs.

But grovel, according to the figures I saw 45% of people don't go along with the system. It's not compulsory. Or anywhere near fully selective.

I would suggest, Marni23, that a lot of children don't take the 11+ because their teachers don't think they've got a hope of passing and spare them the ordeal. I may be wrong.