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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Who can afford private schools in the UK?

999 replies

wjchoihk · 12/02/2013 17:18

Hi. I am not sure if this is an appropriate question to ask here. But I have always wondered how rich you should be to send children to private schools in UK. Fees are anywhere from 3000 up to 10000 per term. Even allowing for wide gaps in income, thinking of 'avearge' UK wage of 26,000 pound, math simply don't add up for a normal life with such high fees. I also know only 7% of children go private though.

How much of private parents live on "inherited" wealth and how much on simply superior current earnings? I have my kids at SW London privates but I wouldn't be able to afford this without current int'l expat package. Some parents at my kids' schools LOOK and ARE very very rich but most of them LOOK quite down to earth. But I can't ask....

OP posts:

RussiansOnTheSpree · 14/02/2013 18:45

Happy, the top 5 grammars per the FT are all in the South East. You've mentioned this claim to have considered one of these schools then knocked it back before, so it's not unreasonable to think that you live in the south east.

Most people wouldn't move house to go to a state school if they could afford to instead send their child to board. That is however hardly a reflection on the education on offer in the state school, more a reflection on the realities of life. And yes of course you believe that what you are paying for is better than what is on offer at the state school. Nepotism, patronage and swish buildings always look good to the buyer. But don't pretend that your decision was on any grounds other than those. These are schools after all and the education on offer is no better - the trimmings are, and you want to pay for the trimmings. Fine. Your choice and I would defend your right to make that choice - but don't dress it up as something it's not.

JenaiMorris · 14/02/2013 18:46

maisie, most private schools are selective. Even if they're not, the very fact that their parents have the earning power to pay suggests that their pupils are less likely to struggle.

That might be nature, nurture, whatever.

happygardening · 14/02/2013 18:49

Don't worry Russian I have absolutely no problem seeing it's you thats telling me having made a whole pile of ridiculous assumptions that there's no difference no sorry not no difference that state school are better in all respects in comparison with top independent schools. Having just read the DFES tables and looked up the grammar school where my DS was offered a place at and yes its where I said it was the interesting thing is that although the school is higher up the league table than my DS's school when you actually break down exam results e.g. A*s etc and university entrance my DS's school is quite significantly ahead. But again as I keep saying thats not why we chose it. Frankly Im sure he could have got the same exam results in our excellent comp who are notoriously pushy in the 6th form and have special classes/help for those who are Oxbridge potential.

RussiansOnTheSpree · 14/02/2013 18:49

Maisie - with regard to the top grammar schools - you are misinformed about both the obsession with results and the time for extra activities.

happygardening · 14/02/2013 18:55

Ahhh we've moved Russian we used to live in the south east life is much better here in Smalltownsville!
As your obviously such an expert please could you provide me with actual examples of nepotism and patronage not your chip on the shoulder assumptions.

RussiansOnTheSpree · 14/02/2013 18:56

The DfES don't give out the university destinations. Nor the percentage of A*s. And not all school websites do, either (although it would be nice if they did).

Still at least you are now admitting it is the nepotism and patronage you are paying for and I agree with you, you get much more of it from posh schools.

maisiejoe123 · 14/02/2013 18:58

I have at least 5 friends around here whose children go to the South Bucks grammar's. So they are ALL misinformed as I was when I went to look around one of the schools by one of the teachers! Really.....

I have a DS at a well known boarding school. He has a late August birthday (didnt plan that very well). Whilst he is not wildly academic the school is bringing out the absolute best in him. He wouldnt his previous school and I feel passed the 11+.

Of course grammars are obessed with results. I wouldnt have expected them not to be! That's what makes them so popular with parents. Do you really think any parent chooses a grammar for the extra actitvities.

morethanpotatoprints · 14/02/2013 19:00

Happy

There are ex Olympians teaching at the Faith school my ds2 attends they even offer rowing. There really isn't always a difference.
Don't get me wrong we had the complete opposite with ds1 at his school. It really was the worst of the worst. Luckily he turned out ok though. Also the Faith school does not have as good results as top indies, but to generalise about a difference in quality of activities is a bit silly.

maisiejoe123 · 14/02/2013 19:02

Russian - Happy chose a private school for her own reasons, not the reasons that are convienent for you to state. Please get the chip off your shoulder about private education. No, its not for everyone. You need to be able to afford the school fees, generally you need to live in the SE but Happy is one of the only people on this thread that has a child in both the state and private sector. If you want to go to a grammar you need to pass a test. One is a monetary and one is intelligence based. Please listen to her and stop telling her why she has chosen certain routes!

happygardening · 14/02/2013 19:02

No you're right Russia but some of the schools websites do and Im perfectly capable of accessing a website.
Where did I admit its nepotism and patronage? I asked you to provide me with actual and real examples I don't think any reasonable person would think that means Im admitting it exists.

TotallyBS · 14/02/2013 19:02

maisie - no one has seen fit to answer your question about seeker so I might as well step up to the plate.

Yes she has a DD at the local GS. Contrary to her expectations, her DS failed the 11+ and is consequently in year 7 at a sec mod in an economically deprived part of Kent.

As you can imagine, seeker isn't too happy with parents who she sees as having bought an education that she would have liked for her DC while hers goes to a school where there is no school orchestra or (shock horror ! ) carol service was in the school hall as opposed to the local posh church.

Hopefully the above will give you a perspective on why seeker posts what she posts.

happygardening · 14/02/2013 19:03

Ok morethan I wont sorry I wont generalise again.

morethanpotatoprints · 14/02/2013 19:03

Sorry to be dim but does nepotism mean dc attending because generations of their family have?
I have seen this at several parents events I have attended.

scarlettsmummy2 · 14/02/2013 19:04

I went to a northern Ireland grammar school and my daughter is at a private school in Edinburgh. To be honest there really isn't a huge difference. Yes, there probably is slightly more of a socio economic mix at the grammar, but not noticeably so, but otherwise the ethos and results are pretty much the same.

happygardening · 14/02/2013 19:07

Frankly I dont know what Russian means by nepotism. We know quite a few friends who went to Eton et al and are exceedingly disappointed that their DS did not get a place so it cant be that she's talking about. What other nepotism can she be talking about? Any ideas?

maisiejoe123 · 14/02/2013 19:09

So Seeker has a massive chip on shoulder. I thought so from her posts. She didnt answer my question either. No wonder - she convienently forgot her older child got into a grammar school. What she really wants is for both of them to have passed and gone to the GS.

Then the chip would be removed and she could smugly say she believes in state education again forgetting that grammars pick on achivement just like private schools pick on the ability to pay.

What she is really miffed about is that as her second child didnt pass is that she didnt have the option but to send them to the nearest sec modern.

Blimey.....

dapplegrey · 14/02/2013 19:19

Russian - you consistently deride private schools as "posh" schools. Would you think it acceptable to describe state schools as "common" schools?

maisiejoe123 · 14/02/2013 19:20

Yes, Eton is getting very academic. Just because your father went doesnt mean that you will go to! They seem to be picking on academic achievement above all else these days. Their choice of course

morethanpotatoprints · 14/02/2013 19:23

In fairness to Seeker, I hardly ever agree with her. BUT if the orchestra and choir are really important to her I can understand why she feels as she does.
My dd left state primary school as the facilities were just not there for her as she is very talented in music. We are fortunate with friends, colleagues and associates of dh that we can access excellent tuition. There are greater opportunities at secondary but still not enough. This is also true of private schools too, before I'm outed as contradicting myself. Luckily I know she will pass the audition to the great specialist music school not far from us.

Auntmaud · 14/02/2013 19:23

But please, please when my DC runs pass yours don't complain about how it's unfair.

Best. Line. Ever.
You have no idea just how unlikely that is.

happygardening · 14/02/2013 19:23

I dont really know what posh means. Im really not being facetious are we talking about the parents the pupils the building the facilities? We had this discussion on an other thread there the OP was talking about what the children did out of school which is fair enough but is that all that makes a school posh?

maisiejoe123 · 14/02/2013 19:24

Russian is probably another one who has never visted a private school.

If someone had looked around and decided it wasnt for them that is one thing. As Seeker is indicating. She has never looked around one either...

Both of them seem to know an awful lot about the private education system though...I went through the state system. Didnt pass the 11+ and went to a rubbish school. I dont want that for my children. They are not 11+ boys tbh.

Marni23 · 14/02/2013 19:25

Actually maisiejoe123 that is a complete misrepresentation of Seeker's views. I disagree with many of them, but I do object to her being made out to be something she's not.

happygardening · 14/02/2013 19:27

Not much nepotism is academic selection unless were assuming being able to pay Etons fees means you more intelligent!! Someone else selects on academic ability oh yes I remember its those grammar schools in the top 5 so if Eton Winchester Westminster et al who all are also exceedingly selective can be accused of nepotism so can those top 5 grammar schools!

seeker · 14/02/2013 19:28

Maisie. I have been an active anti grammar school campaigner both own here and in real life since before I had secondary school age children. I will not engage with BS's misrepresentation of my position- she is famously bonkers where I am concerned. I didn't answer your question because I assumed it was a rhetorical one- I have been completely open about my family situation for many years, and I thought, wrongly, that anyone who has posted on these topics must know my story. I live, and for complex family reasons cannot move from, an area which is entirely selective. Where 23% of children go to grammar school, 77% to high school. Where nearly all children who score 3 level 5s go to the grammar school. My daughter passed the test and went to grammar school. My ds failed, despite scoring 655 in his SATs. He is doing very well at the high school, which is a very good school, but which, because of the ridiculous selective system, has very few children currently working at his level. Which is difficult for the school and for him. However, he is fine. My views on selective and private education have remained unchanged for about 20 years, and have only been strengthened by my first hand experience of the system.

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