Who can afford private schools in the UK?

[wjchoihk]

Hi. I am not sure if this is an appropriate question to ask here. But I have always wondered how rich you should be to send children to private schools in UK. Fees are anywhere from 3000 up to 10000 per term. Even allowing for wide gaps in income, thinking of 'avearge' UK wage of 26,000 pound, math simply don't add up for a normal life with such high fees. I also know only 7% of children go private though.

How much of private parents live on "inherited" wealth and how much on simply superior current earnings? I have my kids at SW London privates but I wouldn't be able to afford this without current int'l expat package. Some parents at my kids' schools LOOK and ARE very very rich but most of them LOOK quite down to earth. But I can't ask....

I can imagine me with a 3yo ds being impressed by a walk-in fridge because it would demonstarte that the school took food safety seriously. Seriously.

I was impressed by some odd things back then.

Sorry Russian wrong again I don't actually live in the south east!!! Its so easy to make incorrect assumptions about other MNetters.
I dont know how you classify a top state school but my DS's school is the counties top performing school in a county full of outstanding schools and one of the top countries top comps according to the league tables if you want to use them as a measure of "top" although I believe there are other ways of measuring schools as I've already said its not just about results.

Nit - There will definitely be state schools that do better drama productions than the best of the posh schools (not the one my DD1 goes to, but you can't have everything). There are definitely state schools with at least as good music if not better than the best of the posh schools. And there are plenty of top posh school where the arts ed provision is abysmal. Where the top posh schools win is on facilities and sheer ostentatious wealth (so in fact we are indeed talking about more fives courts than anyone could ever need). But that is completely irrelevant to a young person's education.

The top posh schools provide opportunities for nepotism and patronage, and they do so in beautiful surroundings. But the quality of education they provide is no better than at the top state schools and anyone who thinks otherwise clearly doesn't, in fact, have any experience of those schools. Because if they did, they would know.

Pugs - I agree, some would like us all to be the same but they dont really mean it, if it means having to give up something that they feel they deserve or have worked for. Perhaps we can be dicated to regarding the number of children we have, what sort of house we have, what car we drive and of course what school we go to. Communism doesnt work. Ask the Russians - there were certainly some more equal to others even in the depths of the Soviet Union.

yy happy I willingly concede that having them there to use on a whim means that children are going to be exposed to activities that might well be available outside, but will take more effort.

I can't buy that as an extra on top of ds's state education sadly.

happy - I said £9k was about the norm fees wise around here. I rounded it up to £10k to include extras. I then suggested that it takes £13k gross income to cover the fees. But then, you know that was what I meant so why the eye rolling?

You are saying that a family can't live on £27k gross income. You are either trolling or you really believe that. Either way, engaging you further is a bit pointless so excuse me while I go on find out what crap is being posted elsewhere.

I still don't get it with this walk in fridge business unless we're talking about the kitchen where the children's meals are cooked/stored surely a walk in fridge is just a practical necessity if you storing food for 1200 pupils be it state or independent school. But why do children need a walk in fridge?

Oh er - are we starting on people who live in the South East. Next we will be accused of not living in the real world - yikes!

I do wish people would stop that "would you like it if we were all the same?" argument. Nobody wants us all to be the same, not even Marx-loving, leftie Red Wedge throwback me!

As an aside the word "top" in relation to schools always makes me cringe. I'm not sure why, although I used to know a dreadful, boastful woman for whom everything she bought was "top of the range" and I think I might associate it with her.

russian - if you can get into a top state - great! But what if your school is just average or failing... What if you dont live in the area? What do you do then? We cannot all go to 'top state schools' just like we cannot all go to 'top independent schools'

There are brilliant state schools but sadly most dont live near them or the house prices reflect their brilliance and become unaffordable. The top state school is hardly likely to be in the middle of Moss side - Manchester is it!

Russian Im curious how do you definitely know they're are state schools with better music provision? And how do define quality of education? Results Im afraid the independents are in the lead there out of the top 50 in the FT league table only 10 are state, Westminster has been number 1 for a long time, Oxbridge entry again Im sorry to tell you the independent sector again is streets ahead or maybe you are quite justifiably using other measurements to define quality. I personally don't think either have a monopoly on good teachers they are excellent very good good satisfactory and crap in both sectors so what are you using to define quality?

Oh, happygardening, it was just an example of the nice extras and trimmings you get if you pay lots of money. It's nice to have somewhere to keep your lunch cool in the summer- rather that chucked into a basket like most stare schools do. And it is something people mention about this particular school. But as I said, it's a trivial example.

Fridge is presumably for the storage of packed lunches, as well as elephants (nothing worse than an overheated elephant)? In which case it would not impress me at all as one of the (many) things I like about DC's school is that there are NO packed lunches. Not an option. At all. If there are food allergies then the school will deal with it (and they do, very well). They all eat family style and they all eat what they are given - which means (in general) that they eat even things which they won't eat at home.

Of course, there are some people who would absolutely hate that approach, and it simply couldn't be done in a state school because you have to give the freedom of choice to the parents, but a private school can say "This is the way we do it. Take it or leave it".

Happy one of the country's top comps is unlikely to be, sadly, one of the top state schools. I would defend my old school (comp) against all comers, to be honest, but even I have to admit that while it's still amazingly good, the raft of excellent grammars are probably better schools (although almost certainly not for music). You are comparing every school in the country to basically Eton and Winchester, so I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the posh schools to be compared to the very very top grammar schools, not just a good comp.

So, to sum up - you don't know what you are talking about when you talk about the experience of students in the very top state schools.

Maisie - I don't think I have said anywhere that people shouldn't spend their money on whatever they want to spend it on. All I have done is point out to a poster who consistently makes derogatory comments about state schools that she doesn't actually know what she is talking about. :)

maisiejoe123 I live near one and it has vacancies if you live here in Smalltownsville, we are also one of the best places to live in terms of crime one crime last September but what was stolen was put back the next day, we live longer and apparently we're much happier, houses are not exactly cheap but definitely not London home counties prices but think Hot Fuzz a petition was signed when a shop was not painted regulation green we don't want poor people living in social housing (well I don't care but others do) or people who fail to water their hanging baskets and rubbish public transport. I still pay for one of my DS's!

Eton and Winchester damn well should get fabulous results. They are highly selective and can expel boys who don't want to learn.

The extraordinary thing about the best comps is what they achieve across the board with all-comers.

Indeed grovel. Those Eton scholarship papers are astonishing!

@grovel indeed. I completely agree with you. But Eton and Winchester don't - according to the DFeS, not the FT (and the FT has an agenda) - get as good results as some state grammars. And if I was paying - as some people are so fond of repeating - £30k a year for the privilege of sending my kids there I'd be rather put out if the schools weren't turning out the very best results.

I could afford private education for my kids. But I chose not to go that route because earned income is very impermanent and I am very risk averse (my working class background) and my experience at Cambridge tells me that the brightest of kids do better to go to a good state school. If one is available. Since there are decent schools here, there is no need for me to fret on it.

So, are we including grammars in this discussion? They pick and choose their pupils not on whether they can afford the fees but whether they are bright enough. Isnt that the same thing? Some posters have complained that using your money to pay for a private education gives your children privilege and shouldnt be allowed, what about privilege due to the ability to pass and fail a test and get yourself into a tip top grammar.

It depends what you mean by "best" state schools. If you go by straight results, then it will of course be a grammar, for the same reasons that private schools get good results- selective, and selective in a way that weeds out the poor/disadvantaged and, frequently but not always, many AENs. However, if you go by value added, then the best schools will be comprehensives.

Russian more assumptions Im afraid you really should stop doing this we're not all stereotypical. We not only looked very carefully at one of the countries top five grammars eye wateringly over subscribed and frequently discussed on MN as an example of how good grammars are. We also talked to current parents/pupils about how it was organised on a day to day basis including quality and depth of curricular activities etc., we compared results etc becasue Im as keen as the next man to not pay fees if there is a viable alternative. We also got a place out of the normal entry point and turned it down why because it was not a viable alternative for us it was not what we wanted! Its a great school with a well deserved and awesome reputation but still not equal to what we were prepared to pay for.

Of course there is a difference between private education and grammar schools. If you can't see that then I really can't help you

The state grammars have nothing like the faciliites of Winchester and Eton and of course you need to pass the 11+ to get into a grammar. There will also be little time for extra activities as the top grammars are obsessed with results. Plenty of friends children go to them and that is their top complaint!

"The state grammars have nothing like the faciliites of Winchester and Eton and of course you need to pass the 11+ to get into a grammar. There will also be little time for extra activities as the top grammars are obsessed with results. Plenty of friends children go to them and that is their top complaint!"

Of course they haven't- they haven't got the same money. And I wouldn't believe everything a child tells you about their school-the grammar schools I know about have loads of extra curricular activities and loads of time to do them. The obsessed with results thing is a myth.