Who can afford private schools in the UK?

[wjchoihk]

Hi. I am not sure if this is an appropriate question to ask here. But I have always wondered how rich you should be to send children to private schools in UK. Fees are anywhere from 3000 up to 10000 per term. Even allowing for wide gaps in income, thinking of 'avearge' UK wage of 26,000 pound, math simply don't add up for a normal life with such high fees. I also know only 7% of children go private though.

How much of private parents live on "inherited" wealth and how much on simply superior current earnings? I have my kids at SW London privates but I wouldn't be able to afford this without current int'l expat package. Some parents at my kids' schools LOOK and ARE very very rich but most of them LOOK quite down to earth. But I can't ask....

Well, but it's limited....

rich people

"seig isn't refreshing for you to comment freely that private school was a waste of money for your children without posters calling you names? If I said the same about state schools then seeker and tosn will start going on about how my experience is rude, about fairness bla bla bla"

Sorry- I don't understand. Could you say that again, so I can see whether I'm going to go on about anything?

teacher - is this a real conversation? I'm always wary of purported conversations where people appear to be extreme caricatures. I mean, the mum is dim but presumably in a highly paid job as well. Seems a bit of a contradiction.

As for everyone that she works with being private, I work with some highly paid City people and not everyone sends their kids to private. Many prefer to be in catchment for highly regarded state schools. The logic being they rather put the money into a house that they can sell for a profit at the end. I be interested to hear where this friend works.

If its important to you and you find a school that suits your dc and you can afford it, you go.

If its either not important to you or you can't find a suitable school you don't go.

If it is important to you, you find a suitable school and you can't afford it then you apply for bursaries, scholarships, awards etc.

TOSN you definitely have to get to know Peter Wimsey. Strong Poison and Gaudy Night are him at his most human, so probably a good start.

"It went a bit like this:
'Well, you [tw2k] know about education, so even if everyone else you know sends their children private, you can explain sensibly why you send them to state schools. And you can feel confident that you have chosen good ones. I don't know about education, and everyone I work with sends their children to private schools. I don't know how to find a good state school, and I wouldn't know how to defend that choice if I made it. So I take the easy option and do what other people do."
Im trying to keep out of this slanging match but teacher this may be the views of your friends but it certainly isn't the views of the friends we have all of whom send their DC's to "big name" boarding schools. All do it because they know believe its provides a far better and broader education than their DC's will ever get in the state sector however good it may be.!
Totally I don't know what preps your talking about but the ones I'm familiar with a gross total income £40 000 is not going to pay for the fees. I'm a realist unless your on a bursary then fees are out of the reach of most families. Cutting out the fags and copies of Heat magazine are not going to enable your average Uk family to pay school fees.

Real conversation, sadly.

Mum isn't dim - just privately educated, married to a privately educated man, and knows nothing whatever about education. I know nothing whatever about her field either. At least she admits she knows nothing about education - many people think that having once been a pupil entitles them to be an expert in all of today's schools....

Totally, she lives in the catchment for a VERY fine state primary.

Happygardening - as I say, there are private schools that are worth it, in the same way as there are state schools i is worth paying money to avoid. Neither describe the whole sector, however. The discussion is only worth having on an 'individual child for an individual school' basis. I only mention the conversation because the amount of effort put in to paying the fees in that family was so exceptionally disproprtionate to the benefit obtained.

(If they had been making such sacrifices to send their children to e.g. Winchester or similar, then I would have a different view on the matter - as I said, there are schools it can be worth paying for)

I really don't know who can afford to go private!

We have just moved to Surrey due to OH's job and have bought the biggest house we could in this area (slightly smaller than our last few houses) and have a huge mortgage. There is no way we can afford private school as well.
Even though my OH has a well paid job....

Years ago I really wanted to go private - my son is bright, gifted .... but as he has Aspergers he would probably get kicked out of private school! I mean, who would put up with their little darlings having to have a sometimes argumentative boy who goes on and on and occasionally gets a right cob on if mistreated (bullied etc)

Even now I would love it if he was handpicked to go to a local private school (there are several excellent ones near here) and I could contribute towards fees if he had a scholarship/bursary.
But we have to make do with the local (very good) academy and try to make sure he tries hard in class and doesn't fall by the wayside.
Smaller classes, a smaller school.... that would be ideal but we have to just go with the flow now..... he is a black belt in karate so doesn't get bullied too much any more :)

"the amount of effort put in to paying the fees in that family was so exceptionally disproprtionate to the benefit obtained."
But if this family are happy with and believe in it thats what counts. You might think its a third rate school but maybe they don't, you only have to read the arguments on MN about top independent schools to see that we all think and want something different. I would rather send my DS to a state school than Eton although I acknowledge its a good school and that many love it and their DS's do well there just not a good school for my DS or us as a family. We all want different things from a school perhaps they feel its offers their DC as an individual something or maybe they feel comfortable there who knows but its their money let them spend it how they like.

HG, they are not happy there BUT they are too scared of the state alternative to move...which sounds daft, written down, but they have no knowledge of the state system (direct or via the children of friends) to guide them and have been told so many times that 'private is best' ... which is why our conversation came about.

(They also moan constantly about their lack of money, which I find deeply irritating, but that's by the by!)

happy - we aren't near the Chelsea crowd :) so the local (highly regarded) prep 'only' cost about £9k pa. Lets round it up to £10k to include extras. Finger in the air - £8k pa mortgage for 3 bed semi. That's about £20k of your gross salary. The remaining £20k gross is IMO enough to pay for bills and food.

My income is above £40k and a lot of it is bonuses and share options so I have no firm idea of what tax deductions are made against a 'regular' income of £40k. So I'm willing to accept that HMRC takes a bigger chunk than I thought. In which case £40k is not do-able.

Im always astonished why people continue to pay if they're not happy unless of course their DC's are coming up to crucial exams and it would be daft to move them. To not do it because they have "no knowledge of the state system" is ridiculous and bizarre its not exactly rocket science once you cut through the jargon. Any fool can read an inspection report (even if they're not worth the paper they're written on) view a school and ask pertinent questions.

wixa - in answer to your question, people who don't take out whacking big mortgages is who :)

We bought about 13 years go. Our house is worth double now. If we were first time buyers then there is no way we could afford the mortgage and the fees but since we bought when it was relatively cheap .....

teacherwith2kids I have had a similar conversation with a friend.

She had decided to privately educate her dd. She and her dh had based their whole life around this, as they are not on high incomes. They had one child to ensure that fees could be paid for.
This is great. Except it's not a great private school. It's in a small town and panders to those who feel that if they pay they get something better, but is decidedly average.
Imagine her horror then when she discovers my dd has better exam results than her dd. Even more horror when my dd tells her "No, she's not in the top set."
Now for all I know her dd has done much, much better in her private school than she would have done in a state one. But paying for an education does not always mean you get a better education. Fee paying schools are not always more ambitious for their pupils than the state school down the road, despite what the glossy brochure says.

teacher - I'm guilty of complaining about lack of money :) But don't we all?

I know several people on lesser incomes who will complain about being broke despite paying £40 pm for Sky, £x on cigs and beer, and an annual holiday to Spain.

Ok, if you are on benefits and struggling then yes, it can be extremely irritating to hear well off people complain about forgoing a foreign holiday. But that aside, , I don't see why only people of modest incomes should be allowed to complain.

sieg I don't think I've read any of your posts about regretting shellling out for fees (other than on this thread). Do people really get arsey about it?

I mentioned earlier that thanks to a promotion, we could probably afford to send ds to a private school but I really don't think it would be money well spent. There are some great fee-paying schools here, they're just not £12k+ a year great. If £1k a month represented a much smaller percentage of our income I suppose I'd feel differently, but it would have to be a significantly smaller percentage.

If we were really sensible I suppose we could try and put the money we might have spent on fees aside. £80k could be hugely handy in 6 years time...

Totally if both were partners were on £20 000 a year total income just shy of £2700 per month not including CB . I doubt few in London home countries Oxfordshire Wiltshire Hampshire pay only £8000 PA for their mortgagee more like £1000 PA if not more so thats more than a third of your income gone already. Then you add in food travelling to work council tax utilities insurance clothes CC and other bills or a family of four thats at least another third gone if not more probably I just don't accept that they're enough to pay £850 a month in prep school fees and that assumes you've only got one child most people have at least two.

Not forgetting as a recent poster seems to be implying, if you're at private school you won't have to deal with AEN kids, and don't worry, if you go state you won't be bullied much so long as you've got a black belt at karate!

impty "Imagine her horror then when she discovers my dd has better exam results"
Can i make an outrageous suggestion maybe for some its not all about exam results!!

"AEN"????

impty - I have had similar conversations with people who have fallen for the pretty uniform and only realised too late how incredibly average (or worse) the education actually is. The school I went to probably falls into the "average" category but since neither my parents nor I were keen on boarding it was still the best available option (private or state) and I did ok (got into Oxford) , probably because of pushy teacher DM as much as the school. The mistake a lot of people make, IMO, is thinking that paying the fees means that you don't have to remain closely involved with your DC's education, and that they will emerge as a "finished product". Gross generalisation, but those who have consciously chosen state education seem more likely to be interfering involved parents.