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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

End of Key stage 3 target versus predicted end of KS3 predicted level.

26 replies

cece · 04/02/2013 19:19

DD has had her interim Year 7 report. She is in Year 7 and my eldest so I am new to all of this.

However, I am concerned that she does not seem to be on track to meet any of her end of KS3 targets. For instance she is targeted Level 7/8 for maths but her forecasted level is only a 7. Her English target is 7 but she is forecast a 6. Worse of all her food tech is targetted 6/7 but she is only forecast to get a level 5.

Her sttitude scores are either good or outstanding so I think she must be making enough effort.

Would I be making too much fuss to contact her tutor about this? It says in the accompanying letter that we can do that if we have any concerns.

OP posts:

OddBoots · 04/02/2013 19:21

She has ages until the end of KS3 so please don't worry just yet, it's a huge learning curve just to get used to secondary school in the first place.

EcoLady · 04/02/2013 19:28

Usually the target is for end of KS3 (end yr9) but th eforecast is for where they'll be at the end of this year ... so you'd expect a gap.

Original poster

cece · 04/02/2013 19:29

Thank you. I get what you are saying. However, I let things drift and didn't question things at her Junior school and she didn't do as well as she should have done in her KS2 SATs. I feel I should be more proactive this time around maybe!

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Original poster

cece · 04/02/2013 19:29

The forecast is definitely for the end of KS3. It says so at the top of the column on the chart.

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noblegiraffe · 04/02/2013 22:57

If the targets are computer generated, then ignore them. If the report says that your DD is working well, then that's what matters.

Original poster

cece · 04/02/2013 23:16

I'll ask her tutor via the received report form that we have to send back into school.

Unfortunately her one and only parents evening clashes with my own work's parents evening (Y6 teacher myself..) so will have to reply on DH to find out the finer detail of how she is doing.

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TheOriginalSteamingNit · 04/02/2013 23:18

Targets and forecasts are different, this was v confusing at the end of year 10 as some were higher in one and some in another. I think I just decided to take the average and hope for the higher!

Original poster

cece · 04/02/2013 23:30

You'd think I would know all about this being a Yr 6 teacher... but it seems it's done differently in KS3!

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tethersend · 04/02/2013 23:31

Think of them the other way around.

The forecasted level is what all the data the school has on her says she will achieve.

The target level is what the school are challenging her to achieve.

In other words, the school are saying that she can do better than her forecasted level, and have set her target accordingly. Does that make sense?

It is confusing, and schools maybe need to rethink this.

noblegiraffe · 04/02/2013 23:32

As a Y6 teacher, if you were asked to predict what level your current students would be achieving in food tech at the end of Y8, how accurate do you reckon your predictions could be expected to be?

Take them with a very heavy pinch of salt.

Original poster

cece · 04/02/2013 23:34

I think I understand - sort of! However, I was particularly shocked by her food tech as she cooks a lot at home and is really good at it!! Plus I did it at A level so thought I had taught her well! LOL

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tethersend · 04/02/2013 23:37

The data is often generated from KS2 SATs and/or CATS tests- the forecasts frequently have very little to do with their actual performance in the subject.

Take noblegiraffe's advice, and up the salt content

Original poster

cece · 05/02/2013 20:41

OK will try to chill

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Iamnotminterested · 05/02/2013 21:08

Sorry, her forecasted levels for the end of Ks3 are 7,6 and 5 and you are worried? Really?

Original poster

cece · 05/02/2013 21:48

I am worried because she does not seem to be on track to meet her targets.

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trinity0097 · 06/02/2013 09:39

Food tech is not very much to do with cooking! So ability to cook has very little to do with ability in the subject!

tethersend · 06/02/2013 09:43

No cece, you are looking at this the wrong way around- school are saying she will exceed her predictions. They set the targets, and they have set them above her predictions, therefore saying she can achieve higher levels than predicted.

They should have made this clear. She is not underachieving at all- quite the opposite!

noblegiraffe · 06/02/2013 10:10

At my school the target would be what she could supposedly achieve if she worked hard, and the predicted grade would be what she would get if she continued to work at her current rate, so this example would indicate underachieving.
Although for a Y7, to predict where she would be by the end of Y9 would actually be a bit of a stab in the dark. Such a lot can happen in 2-3 years.
And computer generated target grades (if this is what these are, and they probably are) shouldn't be given to individual students, it's nonsense.

tethersend · 06/02/2013 10:37

They are likely to be using Fischer Family Trust data analysis to come up with the end of KS3 predictions.

A sceptical article about it here.

The predicted grades are not reliant on her working at her current rate, they are a prediction of her ability. There is currently a trend in education to set 'challenge' grades, ie to set end of KS targets one or two levels higher than FFT predictions. This is in order to demonstrate to OFSTED that they have high expectations and challenge students to achieve higher than their ability. I am sceptical about it, but the set of predictions you have received in no way indicate that your DD is not on track to meet her targets.

noblegiraffe · 06/02/2013 10:44

tethers at my school the predicted grades are set by the teacher based on work rate, and the target is informed by FFT data, the opposite to what you are saying.
No wonder parents don't have a clue if schools can't even agree.

tethersend · 06/02/2013 11:58

I know noble- different schools have different names for each predicted level. It's a nightmare when trying to collate data from a number of schools.

However, I am certain that in this case that the predicted level is FFT data and the target is a challenge target set by the school; in your school they would be labelled the other way around, but the meaning would be the same- cece's DD is not underachieving. I am certain of this as they are end of KS levels rather than end of year; as you say, teachers are not (or should not be) asked to predict levels in three years' time based on 'work rate' and without referring to data, as they will be inaccurate.

Original poster

cece · 06/02/2013 12:44

wow thanks for all of the comments.

I have decided to add a note to the reply slip (we have to send back in to prove we have read the report) to ask for her tutor to clarify whether she is OK or under/over achieving!

In my school we base each child's target on their KS1 results, a target tracker program and also our knowledge of each individual child - and then of course the Governors and LEA have their say too!

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noblegiraffe · 06/02/2013 12:49

Isn't there a letter explaining the levels and targets and so on with the report? It's a very basic failure of the reporting system if you can't tell whether your child is doing well or badly!

tethersend · 06/02/2013 13:08

Agree, it's absurd.

Original poster

cece · 06/02/2013 17:07

I agree!

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