independant schools and 11+?

[mam29]

sorry if seems daft question.

but we dont have grammer system here.

But independants have 11+

is its same as grammer?

How do you know if child will pass or be suitable.

Of course theres coaching/tutoring but

should they be deally hitting level 5 or 6 in keystage 2 sats to be suited?

I have never done 11+ or husband
Not even seen one.

wondered is it hard for child whos gone to bog standard state primary to pass? the secondries so dire here and competition for good state schools is huge.

must add dd year 2 thinking ahead as got told have to look at secondrys in year 5. what year do they sit 11+?

year 5 or 6? most website says jan,

think year 6sats summer term so possibly after 11+

Each independent school will set its own exam, so you need to find out from the school what the exam looks like.

Usually you need to register for the school by a deadline in autumn year 6, exams in January, interviews Jan/Feb and offers in March. They will also ask for a primary/prep school reference will be asked for at some point, and quite a lot of weight is normally attached to them. As many preps do not do SATs, it's unlikely there will be a formal requirement for a particular level.

Some schools publish a list of schools from which pupils join. It's a question worth asking at an open day too.

Thanks edith weston very useful.

I guess right now im wondering if its best option for dd hnece why thinking early in case academic prep needed.

reference s that about how they behave and interact socially.

At moment dds very sporty-not had chance to compete at high level yet as shes nearly 7.

shes not starting music until juniors-so no idea what aptitude there if any.

Only considered it as freinds son got in either on scholarship or bursary

reason it appeals is facilities and possibly more rounded education, frendd sons schools very sporty and he attended one of top performing state junor schools in our local area .

Also I fear our shortage of primary places now will mean even harder at secondry.

There are couple academys who select 10% music, language rest is lottery and quota postcode no entrance test.

I did think 11+was same everyhere.

If dident go down tutor route whats best help at home?

The entrance exams for independent schools are called Common Entrance. This test varies from school to school. Aspects may be similar to the 11+ but some areas may be different. For example school A may test children in verbal reasoning, non-verbal reasoning and English (reading and writing) whereas school B may test in English, Maths and verbal reasoning.
It is possible to obtain a bursary (which is means tested and depends on family income) or a scholarship (which depends on exam performance) but usually this only covers a percentage of the fees.
Some lottery schools do have an entrance test called fair banding where they offer places to a percentage of children in each ability band. So dcs are placed in an ability band and then places are allocated by lottery.
If you are religious, I would also check the entry requirements for any faith schools locally as they tend to put church attendance before catchment area and hence have children from a wider area.
HTH

We've been talking to a local Independent school and they test verbal & non-verbal reasoning. The head said do the Bond books but don't get carried away as after a book or max two the child should have grasped the idea and doing loads more doesn't bring loads more benefit. They have altered their numeracy/literacy exams to reflect national curriculum expectations so more accessible to everyone. So if your DD is reasonably on track & schools near you move them same way maybe just support with free online resources and avoid the expense of a tutor?

Forgot to add that the children I know who moved to an independent school from state primary had reached level 5 by the end of Y5 in all subjects.
A bit early to predict whether your dd will reach that level as only in Y2. Schools do predict level 5 in KS2 for dcs who reach Level 3 at the end of KS1 (Y2) although this is not guaranteed.

thanks guys really helpful.

crazymum-yes fairbanding sounds riht so allowed to pick 10%

not sure if she ill manage level 3 in ks1sats will have to wait and see.

just so much discussion over secondries already as our city good schools oversubscribed.

The 2 top performing state are faith

rc-we not and out catchment know rc who dident get in so safe to say we stand no chnace.

coe-yes dds baptised but requires 3years consistant church attenedance and no school bus worries me.

2 old independants turned academies

The rest are mixed bag

hence why considering independant option as backup as thinkng would be a private application not one of my 3choices?

You are right. You apply to the independent schools separately as well as the 3 LEA "choices".
The independent schools do not have school buses either so this isn't really an issue.
I believe from some of your other threads that you are also my LEA so if you want to pm me then please do so. My dd is at one of the better state schools in the area.
HTH

Hi thanks for advice on secondry schools.

seems daft in year 2 to consider but people in bristol seem fixated with them-im not from bristol moved here about 8years ago.

I live in south glos. -so they my lea.
but all the better secondry schools seem to come under bristol lea

independants considering i guess are

colstons collegiate
redland girls
maybe bristol grammer.

state schools on my lookout list

st bedes-we not rc so very little chance.
st mary redcliffe-option if start going church more regular
bristol catherdral-now academy
colston girls-now academy.
john cabot acdemy kingswood
the ridings academy

maybe in madness bristol met as thinking lot can change in a few years time.

wrong side of bristol for cotham/redland green

which one does yours go to?

I guess i worry that bristol primary school admssions will eventually mean more strain on secondry places.

I hate the way most schools been turned into acedemys and act like the meccas of education apart from shiney new buildings and uniforms can see whats changed.

My local secondry just got posh new uniforms still wouldent want to send dd 1 there.

ooops message instead of pmed. will pm you now.

They don't do CE exams at 11, that's at 13 and more extensive than the exams they'd do for entry at 11.

My DS was KS level 4 at the end of Year 5 and level 5 at the end of Year 6. That makes him bright but not exactly the brightest of the brightest. Yet, with a bit of home tutoring, he was offered a place at an indie that is in the Top 15 of the FT rankings.

I'm mentioning this here in order to counter Crazy's comment about knowing kids who were level 5 at the end of Year 5. If that isn't your kid then don't worry. KS level achieved IMO is a reflection of the primary school and less of the child's potential.

As for the comment about how a DC just need to be familiar with the format so no need to spend too much time on practice papers, it took 4 months to get DS to the point where he worked fast enough to finish the paper and to have enough left over to check his answers.

Some DCs are so clever they just turn up on the day. Others require minimum prep. But for the vast majority, serious prepping is required.

Bisjo I think you may be slightly confused about CE exams. CE exams are set at both age 11 and 13. They are set by one exam board the Independent Schools Examining Board. At 11 the exams consist of English, Maths and Science. At 13 they include English, Maths, Science, usually French, Geography, History and Religious Studies. There are optional papers in Latin, Greek,Spanish and German. Certain exams eg Maths can be taken at different levels. Some schools stipulate what levels the exams must be taken at. CE at age 13 is usually taken at the candidates own school. Once completed the exam papers are sent to the first choice school who marks it. The results are announced on the same day
www.commonentrance.net/files/Common%20Entrance%20general%20information.pdf

It's confusing. The private schools I know most about - girls' schools in London - set 11+ exams, NOT CE at 11. Almost all the schools are in one of two London consortia which set papers in English and Maths. Habs' Girls and St Paul's set their own exams but, again, the St Paul's exam is not CE but one they devise. Don't know about Habs.

You need to check for each and apply individually. I don't know of any around our area which use CE at 11+ they all set their own entrance tests - usually English, Maths and VR and/or NVR. End of Autumn term/early New year of year 6 are typical test dates, with State Grammar tests often earlier in Year 6. There are separate auditions/assessments for awards based on Art, Music, Drama, Sport etc. Bear in mind that those already at attached junior/prep schools may be given priority and preparation for senior places.

That's interesting. I don't know any of the schools around us that use CE at 11. The tests at 11 are all set by the individual schools. Also the schools require parents to commit to a place prior to the state school allocation date in March. That makes it hard as your dcs may have passed the state 11+ but won't know whether they have got into grammar school until after they are being asked to sign on the dotted line for independent school. Of course that's not a problem if you've failed the 11+ but passed the independent school 11 exams. That seems to happen a lot where we are even though the independent exam is supposed to be very competitive.

We got offered an indie place before the state school allocation was announced but we didn't have to commit (with non refundable cheque) until after we knew what state school we had been allocated.

As for CE, all the Indies that we looked at set their own papers.