Can someone explain the state school catchment system to me?

[scubacat2292]

We are relocating to London from the United States in the next two months and I am really concerned about finding good schools for my boys. Independent schools are out of the question due to the high costs, so I need to find good state schools for them. While I've been researching, I'm getting more and more confused about how the system works. People have said to be sure to live in the catchment area of a good school, but then say some are oversubscribed. Does that mean even if you live in the area, you won't get in? And if we move now in December, will we be able to get in for January? I've seen people talk about entrance exams and deadlines, about there being no secondary schools for certain areas, etc. How can that be? In the US, if you live within the boundaries of a school, you go to that school. It doesn't matter if it is "full" -it must take your child. I'm guessing London doesn't work that way? Can someone please help me out here. :)

My boys are 13, 10, and 7, so we need both primary and secondary. We are looking in the surrounding areas of London - anywhere within 30 to 40 minutes to the Waterloo station would be fine.

Thats true calming but where a brit might settle quite happily may be a stretch for an ex-pat (from experience settling ex-pats!)

We live in North London and I've literally just submitted my Y6 daughter's application for secondary school this evening ahead of next week's London-wide deadline. I have our local authority (LEA) handbook to hand and with regard to "late" applications they say "if you apply after 31st October 2012 your child will not be considered for a place until after the initial offer of places on 1 March 2013. The authority does however reserve the right to accept a late application where it considers there are exceptional reasons for the application not being received in time".

I daresay yours is an exceptional reason ? but even so, move and apply just as soon as you can, before the LEA starts the process of working out who should get a place where. Certainly in our Borough (Enfield) the few schools which will be left with places after 1 March are probably the ones you really don?t want and I would guess this is the same across the whole city.

I don?t envy you ? it?s a bad enough scramble for places when you live here ? and you may have to be prepared to settle for something a bit less than ideal to begin with. But you can always go onto waiting lists and hopefully something else will come up. Good luck!

Just read more of your thread. I think on that budget, you may have to decide whether you want to compromise on the commute or the availablilty of good schools! You could easily rent a three bed house with garden in a safe, leafy area of suburban Enfield N London for £1400/month. Fares are about £200/month and DH could be at work door to door in less than 1 hour. If you stick to EN2 postal area all schools are fine. I wouldn't neccesarily expect to get a place immediately though - you may have to go on a waiting list. Or the N14 postal area near to Southgate or Oakwood tube station. Very family friendly areas, with good access to lovely countryside - but perhaps not very glamorous or exciting. London Borough of Barnet may also be a good option but I don't know the specifics of locations and schools.

DoodleNoo -You've lost me. I don't know what EN2 means. And I don't get the whole "I wouldn't necessarily expect to get a place immediately though." What do you do with your kids if they don't have a place? Don't they have to go to school somewhere??? Wouldn't the LA just put them in a nearby school instead?

Yes, I've been reading up a lot on the school situation and I realize that we will be coming in after all the applications have been put in. But I'm not interested in being in the very top school - just a decent one. It needs to be safe and with caring teachers and reasonable facilities. I will trade excellent test scores for happy children who are engaged and encouraged. Honestly, I would rather avoid those crazy oversubscribed excellent schools and find a nice decent school that we could get into and stay at that isn't too far from our new home. Is that too much to ask? lol

And no, we're not looking for glamorous or exciting. Just family friendly and safe. :)

Kewcumber - I don't need furnished. The company will move our entire house if I want, although I know it won't all fit. His actual stop will be Chancery Lane, which seems a bad connection to anything, so we were thinking he could drive over to Morden and take the Northern Line to Bank, and then the Central line to Chancery. That's Zone 4 to Zone 1, so saves us the train fare and the multiple connections you were talking about. How much does it cost to park at the Morden station? I looked on their website but didn't see a cost.

If that's a feasible option, then living in Surbiton, Claygate, Chessington might work? But if that's not realistic, then please let me know. I REALLY appreciate all the suggestions and feedback I'm getting from you ladies. It really is helping me figure this all out!

Avoid Northern Line commutes - it's known as the Misery Line.

As someone said earlier, City Thameslink station is your best bet - five mins walk from Chancery Lane. Download the station's connections map here (second link down on these results, work out which suburbs or towns along the lines you can afford, then use the National Rail Enquiries link to calculate commuting times.

Actually getting the Northern line in from Morden isn't too bad, and the service itself is fine, just really overcrowded - it becomes hellish further up, and by the time you get to the three Claphams getting on a train in the morning becomes distinctly iffy, not to mention hazardous. But if you get on at the first station you're laughing.

I don't think there's a car park though, and it's not a particularly quick way of getting a-z, City Thameslink would be way faster (though probably also v crowded).

DoodleNoo, good luck with your CAF.

The thing about a late application though, is after the first round of offers, you slot into the waiting list according to the admissions criteria - the OP won't go to the back of the queue. And even very popular, oversubscribed schools usually take some children from the waiting list because someone will go private, move abroad, be moving elsewhere etc etc. So if the OP moves very very close to a school with distance as the main criteria, she will jump ahead of everyone who applied on time but lives further away and whose application relies on distance.

OP, I think all most Londoners want is a "nice decent school" with caring teachers and engaged children. There are plenty of oversubscribed schools that are not "the very top one". Not trying to be discouraging, just to warn you that in some areas of London, this is a real problem. I think you need to do your research carefully and get very close to a school you like the look of - not just in its general vicinity because you could then fall between two stools and get nothing (for a while) or a distant school or one that you would not consider. That may mean choosing a less desirable on the face of it area, given your budget.

Very good luck.

That's true, MrsVincent - but I was thinking of the Northern Line return evening journey. I'm a veteran of Chancery Lane - Clapham South with change at TCR - it was truly miserable

Yes good point Kandy, the journey back at 5-7 pm is No Fun (always surprised by just how long the evening rush "hour" lasts)

Think you need to consider the whole financial picture so say you allocate 2k a month for housing/commuting round here that might just about cover a small 3 bed semi or terrace (£1400), train fare (£300), parking at station (£100) and council tax. Just outside M25 , train 40 mins to Victoria or London Bridge (underground to near Holborn or LB has frequent connections to Waterloo East) or Thameslink. However for same 2k you could pay more in rent for similar house, less in travel , nothing in parking by living within the London Travelzones within walking distance of a station . Horses for courses.

However living within the travel zones ie. outer London doesn't guarantee a quicker commute, may be a culture shock depending on what you are used to, and also you should bear in mind that, depending on his line of work, a 9am start and 5pm get away may simply not be realistic.

KandyBarr - It's a good point. He was thinking if he gets on at Morden then he's the first on the line, gets a seat, and checks his email while he travels in. We didn't really consider the line back. What do you think of the central line? He could head West out to West Ruislip without any transfers? Is there wifi on the tube?

LIZS - I would say that my research shows it's not quite equal. The amount we save by removing the train pass doesn't add enough to make the rents possible. So although I might save 200p by removing the train line, I can't find a 3bed flat for 1700 instead of 1500. So we are looking to live a little farther out and hopefully save on a cheaper flat, or bike to the station, or something like that.

Oh, and in regards to your last line there LIZS, here he gets out at 5pm, but gets online and does work in the evening from home to make up a couple of hours if he needs to. So at least we get to see him in the evening, and he's home for dinner with the kids. :)

It depends what he is doing. Honestly some companies are really in favour of "presentism" and like to see you there. However sometimes you can get in early to get out early (can make a huge difference) or even stay later and be able to get in later.

The LA/borough have to supply you with a school place in a reasonable time, but that could be a month. They could drag their feet and it could be longer. In the meantime you either give them a holiday or homeschool them.

Central line is fast and more modern than the Northern, and as someone else said, not having to change is a huge time saver. Ruislip to the west, or perhaps some of the Essex towns such as Epping, Hainalt to the east, would give a trouble-free inward commute. But it will always be packed in the evening - I usually had to let one or two trains go before I could get on a train at Chancery Lane. City Thameslink station with its links to towns and suburbs in the north and south is bigger, though will still be crowded.

Wifi only in a handful of tube stations and trains: my.virginmedia.com/wifi/index.html

London schools are outperforming those in the rest of the country, according to a recent Financial Times study: www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19151471

scubacat, you could easily avoid the tube if you get the train. Within London zones I don't think there's a price difference between tube and train. You can end up at Waterloo, City Thameslink or Blackfriars stations and be within 15 minutes walk of Chancery Lane. The map is very misleading - central London is much smaller than it looks and much of it can be walked or you can hop on a bus. Have you looked at the Transport for London website? There's a journey planner so you can test journey times.

muminlondon - I thought that even if he wanted to hop a bus, he would need a travelcard? I don't think he would mind walking 15 minutes (or grabbing a rental bike or something), but we assumed that it wouldn't be feasible in the winter with the cold/rain/snow?

mummytime - Okay, I hear you. We will be flying out for a househunting trip sometime before the actual move, and I hope to actual find a place during that trip. Then I'll have an actual address and will get started on the school process.

KandyBarr - unfortunately, there's no other way around it. His office is at Holborn at the moment, and plans to move to chancery lane in the near future. Either station will be packed, I imagine. We've heard from friends who say they bike into the city, but I can't imagine doing that in the rain/snow of winter. Does anybody use scooters or such to get around? Or do they charge you the congestion fee even on a scooter?

Subcat, I'd say muminlondon is right - at Holborn/Chancery Lane, the tube is not your only option; City Thameslink station is close by (check it on Google maps). If it were me, I would concentrate on a shortlist of affordable towns and suburbs along that mainline route - say St Albans in the north, perhaps Bromley or Beckenham in the south - because the combination of a wider, bigger station and direct train lines is likely to add up to a much more comfortable, quicker commute than by tube. St Albans is lovely and schools are great, but it's not London. Beckenham/Bromley are reasonably safe and pleasant London suburbs with good - and some great - schools. There are plenty of other options.

If you are doing a reccy trip, do a dummy run of each commute at peak week-day time if you can. Don't do a dummy run at weekends - the timetables are different, some lines don't operate and the transport system is generally much less crowded, so you won't get a realistic result.

People do use scooters (mopeds), yes, and they're not subject to congestion charge. Generally they don't use push-along scooters, though - bit antisocial on crowded pavements (not sure which you mean!)

Re walking in the winter, London weather is much better than you'd think. There are surprisingly few days when it rains too hard for a ten /fifteen minute walk to be a problem (and when it does that's what umbrellas are for) and bitter cold / snow is likewise a problem for a handful of days each year.

If it snows your main problem is whether the train is running on time. But central London is like a microclimate - it is always two or three degrees warmer than the suburbs! So snow doesn't stick.

You need a travelcard for the tube anyway or pay as you go with a precharged Oyster card. For train journeys you can get a travelcard (and use the bus/tube on top), pay as you go with Oyster (cheapest if you are part-time) or get a point to point season ticket which can be cheaper than a travelcard.

Scubacat, if he's commuting in from say, Morden or one of the nearer Thameslink stations, he'd probably be doing it on a Monthly or Annual Travelcard anyway - which covers any bus, tube or train travel within those zones, and at the weekend too. So hopping on a bus would be free. Often quicker to walk in Central London, but once you know your bus routes it can save a few minutes if the right bus turns up.

www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14416.aspx (news to me that there's a Zone 9, not sure how far out that goes).

Compare weekly train season ticket from Wimbledon to Waterloo with zone 1-3 Travelcard.

Train season ticket £21.30
Oyster pay as you go (10 x peak singles) £31
Travelcard £34.20

You can choose tube or train from Wimbledon but the train is often quicker and on its own it is cheaper.

Snow and really heavy rain is a very rare event! Drizzle is far more common, and snow is often only a very light dusting.
Boris bikes are a great and very convenient way of getting around, my DH uses them whenever he has to go into London now.

KandyBarr - yes, I was talking about a moped. That may be an option for us if we're not too far out.

We're used to drizzle - we're from Seattle. :) On the other hand, we drive everywhere. We don't bike or walk.

Ticket prices - Here's how I understand it based on the journey planners and the national rail season ticket websites. Let's say he's traveling from St. Albans to Chancery Lane. I estimate he will need a train ticket from St Albans to City Thameslink station and the national rail website says that costs £2988. But that doesn't include a bus to Chancery Lane, right? For that I need to get him a Zone 1 travelcard, which the transport for London site says costs £1168. That seems like a lot of money to go a stop or two on the bus each day. I agree with the mums who are suggesting he walk, but I imagine there will be days when he won't want to, so then maybe just an oyster card?

How do you get to the train station from your home? If I'm trying to get us as close to a good school as possible, then that won't always mean close to the train also. Do people walk, ride the bus, drive? If he rides the bus, then that's another cost for a plusbus pass, right?

Check that the ticket doesn't already include travel within Zone 1 as City Thameslink is in Zone 1 already.