Can someone explain the state school catchment system to me?

[scubacat2292]

We are relocating to London from the United States in the next two months and I am really concerned about finding good schools for my boys. Independent schools are out of the question due to the high costs, so I need to find good state schools for them. While I've been researching, I'm getting more and more confused about how the system works. People have said to be sure to live in the catchment area of a good school, but then say some are oversubscribed. Does that mean even if you live in the area, you won't get in? And if we move now in December, will we be able to get in for January? I've seen people talk about entrance exams and deadlines, about there being no secondary schools for certain areas, etc. How can that be? In the US, if you live within the boundaries of a school, you go to that school. It doesn't matter if it is "full" -it must take your child. I'm guessing London doesn't work that way? Can someone please help me out here. :)

My boys are 13, 10, and 7, so we need both primary and secondary. We are looking in the surrounding areas of London - anywhere within 30 to 40 minutes to the Waterloo station would be fine.

www.stalbansreview.co.uk/li/secondary_schools.compare.St%20Albans/

Kewcumber - YES, I promise I will look there! LOL... I actually just read an article my friend sent me that said this about St. Albans:

More expensive than Greater London, this green, clean and pretty town lies a few miles outside the M25 and continues to attract young, wealthy families. You need some serious cash to move here.

Not sure if that is us, but I will check out the rental market. Sounds like a good place for the kids. :) Any OTHER places like St. Albans to check out?

I only know ST albans and windsor both nice places but not the cheapest.

Here's another questions - Since the distances are quite small there, is it super important that I find a flat that is exactly in St. Albans, or is it okay to find something anywhere in the area? How much do schools and safety and such change in small distances?

Surrey deadline for secondary applications for secondary is imminent. Most round here don't have catchments, some have feeder primaries, others allocate some places on religion then distance, or just distance.

I would go for St Albans if I was going that side of London. Forget about catchments and schools, you will be making an application as an in year transfer. Try to get near to schools you like.
When you get there come back and ask advice about Appeals if you don't get a place at schools you want.

Yeah, but OP, this is London - it's unrealistic to think your DH won't be spending hours commuting. Friends who commute to the square mile from Guildford allow an hour and a half each way; from a zone three suburb to Holborn and back is likely to be more than an hour door-to-door. I'm not sure how long a commute from St Albans to Holborn would be, but I would imagine an hour and a half each way.

Do you know how much you can afford to spend each month in rent?

There are so many nice enough areas of London that do not require an hour and a half each way commute. All thse long commutes will also cost a lot in train fares, and your DH will miss out on being at home.

Clapham - easy tube journey to Tottenham Ct Rd a short stroll from Holborn, some good primaries and a perfectly OK secondary (Lambeth Academy), Clapham Common, nice shopping area.
Herne Hill - great parks, v friendly area, Thameslink line to City Thameslink and an easy walk to Holborn. Move v close to Charter school on the H Hill side, or else closer to Elmgreen School.
Streatham Hill - move very close to Dunraven School, easy overground on the Thameslink line from Tulse Hill station, to City Thameslink, walkable to Holborn.

Personally if i were moving to london I would prefer my DH at hime rather than sitting on a train for hours. And also to live closer to London so that you can experience it!

Kandy - I had heard that with the high speeds he could make it into London in about 45 minutes. I realize there is walking and transferring time, but we would figure that out. I hope!!

Calming - Our biggest concern about moving closer in is finding good schools and safe places for the kids. I DEFINITELY want him home more than on a train. We're really spoiled - he just drives 15 minutes to work here in the states. He's willing to sacrifice quite a bit, but we're hoping to keep it around 30 to 45 if we possibly can. We have about 1500/pcm to spend for a 3 bedroom place. If we don't have to pay enormous train rates, then we could bump that up to about 1650 maybe. Thank you for the suggestions!!!! I will look at all of those places.

Okay, Calming - Here's exactly my question. I'm looking at properties in Herne Hill, and it's showing me everything from West Dulwich to Myatts Field South. Is it good all through there, or should I be worried that things get dodgy in some places? My girlfriend who is from London told me that living to the south in London is tricky, because some of the trains pass through areas that are worrisome at night if my hubby comes home late. What do you think?

Calming makes some great suggestions - those three areas are lovely for families, plenty live there, easy commute, loads going on, you can be in town in 30 minutes. Nowhere is completely safe, but I don't think the stations the train goes through is the main factor. Look for houses very close to the stations or on main bus routes from them (Streatham Hill for example is very well served by buses north and south), so your children can be independent, and close to those schools. I would get a big street map - Myatt's Fields is not in Herne Hill (a bus ride away) - and then ask about specific streets or pockets of streets.

The other advantage of moving to Herne Hill, say, is that if places don't come up at the Charter soon, your kids will be an easy commute from the other schools mentioned, and more, because the area is so densely populated and has such good transport links.

Some admission deadlines are just a few days away! Essex is October 31st.

The deadline for secondary school admissions is October 31st across all of England.

The Thameslink line is absolutely fine. yes, some of the stops serve areas which include some very inner-city pockets of urban deprivation, but London is like that.

Myatts Fields is nowhere near Herne Hill...they are very broad brush stroke in area these property search companies - look at there they are on googhle maps.

OP - Miranda's suggestions are great, but waaaaay out of price range - a family house in Clapham or Herne Hill will be more like £1600 a week to rent. Bromley, Beckenham, Croydon, Merton might be more like it.

And 'dodgy' or 'worrisome' places aren't just confined to south London - you'll find them on all points of the compass in this city. I commuted on a midnight train alone for six months from London Bridge through New Cross, Peckham, Tulse Hill, in recent months - all areas probably on your friend's list - and never once felt threatened. Ironically, New Cross is home to Hatcham College - one of London's most sought-after secondaries. London's a jumble - there are no certainties (other than a lack of affordable homes in leafy areas with good schools and quick commutes).

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION%5E1244&maxPrice=1750&minBedrooms=3

St Albans within your price range - I would go walking distance to station personally.

At that budget London itself much more limited - assuming you want some outside space.

There are only 74 furnished flats with outside space within London £1500-£1750

You might be lucky but I would say if you want to live somewhere nice you 'll have to look at the commuter towns

Sorry but your budget is very very low. Also the cost of commuting might also come as a shock. Is your DHs company helping much ?

You can use the National Rail Enquiries site to check journey times on all train routes. St Albans trains go directly from St Pancras station, which is right next door to King's Cross. Journey time is between 19 and 37 minutes, and would estimate Holborn is a half-hour walk from St Pancras. So if you were to rent a house right by St Albans station, you would be within shouting distance of an hour's commute at least some of the time.

Mummytime - you think my budget of 1500-1650 for a flat is very low?

We originally planned to live in Guildford, but found the cost of train and tube passes would be 390pounds per month and still take him an hour and a half. So now I'm thinking closer in, so cheaper tickets and shorter commute. My husband's company does give us a huge amount for commuting, but honestly we need all of that money just to bridge some of the gap in the difference in pay from here to there. We're are seriously losing 15,000 pounds per year to make this move when you consider the pay cut and increased taxes. And that is if I use the commute allowance just to live on. So I'm trying to keep our expenses as low as possible - we're not fancy people. We don't need a huge house or a massive garden. I have three kids, so I need three bedrooms (the two youngest will share) and at least two toilets in the house. I need a kitchen and enough room for 5 of us to sit around a table. I need a safe street, and a good school. I don't really need a garden as long as there are trees around and a park somewhere nearby (I have a massive yard here in the states and we hardly ever use it!). We are willing to really cut back in order to make our dream of living abroad for a few years happen, and we can always come back to our American materialism and consumerism after that! LOL

What do you guys think of Hinchley Wood, Claygate, Surbiton area??

London is expensive! If you go east on the Central tube line from Holborn out to somewhere like Woodford, you could probably get a 3 bed semit detached house for your budget. You could probably get similar in Surbiton - but not sure how the travel costs/times would compare.

I worked with lots of people relocating from the states in the past (european CFO for an American ad agency) and people were often shocked by the cost of living in London but you have to compare it not with Detroit or Orlando or Nice or Valencia or Dusseldorf but with New York or Tokyo or Moscow and you'll see its really very comparable.

You wouldn't expect to move to Manhattan (or very close to it) and live in a decent area in an appt with 3 beds unless you're prepared to live in Washington HEights or Harlem (I know some people would say thats fine - but probably not where you'd ideally want to be as an expat).

If your DH needs to get to Holborn then you seriously need to be looking north of the river if he doesn't want a long or boring commute. Hinchley Wood, Claygate and SUrbiton are all fine but all south of the river.

Example: this property in surbiton www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-34108012.html no garden but close to surbiton station for £1600 furnished, would involve a train journey and tube tube journeys - technically I would only take 40 mins on a good day but generally the way to minimise travel stress on public transport is to minimise changes so ideal one journey then walk at either end or if thats not possible one train journey and one tube ride or tube all teh way with max one change.

Thats my opinion as a dyed in the wool commuter. The most exhausting aspects of commuting is the changes between lines/trains and waiting around for trains.

Is your DH used to commuting by public transport at the moment?

You can use this site journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/user/XSLT_TRIP_REQUEST2?language=en&sessionID=TLJJP16P1_1577786358&requestID=2&command=changeRequest to check commute times but don;t beleive it when it tells you buses take 10 minutes - no buses take 10 mins at the height of the rush hour unless you are either travelling only 0.5 miles (in which case walk) or there are bus lanes all the way and only 1 other person on the bus who is getting off afetr you!

Lots of commuter towns will cost £300-£400 per month to commute

Surbiton is a bit cheaper at £200 per month so he might be prepared to trade off more difficult journey against £100 per month.

Streatham Hill a little above budget, but close to 2 good secondaries and 2 good primaries. Travelcard from Tulse Hill.

The thing about safe areas - because London is so expensive, most of us, the vast majority of ordinary Londoners, teachers, white collar workers, retail managers, librarians, publishers etc all live in areas right next up to or even right in the middle of areas considered rough. Rumours and reputations abound: N Londoners are highly suspicious of S London, ordinary people who live happily in the centre of Peckham will shudder 'knowingly' at the idea of living in Brixton, and vice versa. We all travel late at night on the tube and on overground lines that have some bad housing estates, and some highly desirable mansions, often in the same road.

It all takes some getting used to - London is confronting, but it's worth it!