Can someone explain the state school catchment system to me?

[scubacat2292]

We are relocating to London from the United States in the next two months and I am really concerned about finding good schools for my boys. Independent schools are out of the question due to the high costs, so I need to find good state schools for them. While I've been researching, I'm getting more and more confused about how the system works. People have said to be sure to live in the catchment area of a good school, but then say some are oversubscribed. Does that mean even if you live in the area, you won't get in? And if we move now in December, will we be able to get in for January? I've seen people talk about entrance exams and deadlines, about there being no secondary schools for certain areas, etc. How can that be? In the US, if you live within the boundaries of a school, you go to that school. It doesn't matter if it is "full" -it must take your child. I'm guessing London doesn't work that way? Can someone please help me out here. :)

My boys are 13, 10, and 7, so we need both primary and secondary. We are looking in the surrounding areas of London - anywhere within 30 to 40 minutes to the Waterloo station would be fine.

Someone I know just suggested Hillingdon to me. Any ideas on whether that might be a good place with good schools?

Most schools in Surrey don't have named feeders (exceptions include Howard of Effingham). You are certainly never guaranteed a place, although siblings usually get in, then it is usually on distance, with some exceptions.

For George Abbot the intake is 300, ideally you live in Merrow or Burpham, or at present Send(one of those exceptions, as Send Children get in before central Guildford children). However last year pupils got in from as far away as opposite Guildford County.

I notice that you state that your middle child is 10, they would therefore be going into year 6, final year in in primary (unless birthday since Sept 1). Most LAs have a cut off date around December for late applications for secondary to be considered with the man crop, so you'll need to move earlier rather than later to sort out your second child's secondary. The area around Telegraph Hill/Nunhead/New Cross is good for both primary and secondary. Haberdasher's Aske, Addey and Stanhope and Deptford Green for Secondary and John Stanier, Edmund Waller, Hollydale, Ivydale, Haberdasher's Temple Grove for primary. The advantage of Haberdasher's primary is that it's linked with the secondary. Kingsdale another secondary allocates places by lottery, so you may have a chance there. If you get a year 6 place there, they automatically would get a place for secondary in the secondary phase, this would help your 13 year old (if not 13 since 1st Sept, than year 9). Your youngest child if they have not had their birthday since 1st Sept, they would be in year 3. There is more pressure on places in current year 3 in London than year 6. You are therefore more likely to get a place first your 10 year old than a sibling place for the 7 year old than the other way round. Also, be aware that they are both in juniors so in theory schools could go over standard admission no.

Where will your husband be working? You mention Waterloo - but there are other nearby mainline stations that he could use.

His actual tube station is Holdon, so I was guessing Waterloo for his train line, but I could be wrong about that.

Mushroom3 - you completely lost me! I don't understand. My 10 year old is in 5th grade here in the states, which translates to year 6 there. He would need to find a year 6 school in January that would take him. If we moved after the December application deadline for secondary, are you saying he couldn't go to a secondary school next year? Doesn't he HAVE to get placed somewhere? And what does juniors mean?

Hi, also American so understand your confusion. Maybe some background info would be helpful - apologies if you know all this.

1. London is divided into multiple boroughs governed by councils. All councils have an LEA (local education authority) that deals with state school admissions.

2. There are two official intakes of students where parents apply en masse for a school place - one happens just before kindergarten, for a primary school place, and one during Year 6, for a secondary school place. This is what mushroom is telling you - the LEA deadline will be sometime in Nov/Dec (LEAs will differ), so if your Year 6 child is in London at that point, you could apply for a school place in the, ahem, 'normal' way. You fill out the LEA application form and list your schools in order of preference. You can fill out a form for a neighbouring LEA, too, if you live near secondaries in a neighbouring borough.

3. If you rent right next to a good secondary that awards places on distance, you're very likely to get during the official application process. Outside this 'official' intake, it's a matter of working with the LEA to find an open spot at a school you like.

4. Not all secondaries award on distance. For some it's an entrance exam, or even musical ability, or religious affiliation. Anyway, you need to check out each school's admission policy before moving near it. (Seriously, who came up with this 'system'??)

5. All state schools are rated by a government agency called Ofsted. It ain't a perfect way to choose a school, but with limited time and not much inside knowledge, I'd pay attention to what they say. Look for a school rated 'outstanding' or 'good'.

6. Have you looked at Bromley? Not too dear for rent, not overly far to Waterloo. Some good secondaries.

7. You'll be looking for a comprehensive school, by the way. There are secondaries called grammar schools, and they are more academically prestigious. But that's a whole 'nother can of worms in terms of admission, and your head might explode.

Thank you Bestof7 - I already feel like my brains are turning to much! lol

We most likely will not be there by December. We heard today that things won't be official for a couple of weeks, and THEN we start the visa process, which could take 4-12 weeks. So we're expecting to be there in January some time if all works according to schedule.

It sounds like that will be too late to get into a school just by living near it, right? So I should expect to contact the LEA and find out which schools still have availability?

I'm not accustomed to this idea of busing my kids far away to a "good" school, so I would prefer to live close to whatever school they will actually attend rather than really close to a school that is full and they can't get in to. However, let me ask another question - If, as you say, there is sometimes turnover and my kids might get into a school a bit later, what do we do in the meantime? Do people homeschool while they wait, or switch schools when an opening appears? It seems like switching would be so disruptive.

Oops, that was supposed to say that my brains are turning to mush, not much! See, proof right there.

Okay - sorry but there was one big mistake in what Bestof7 said.
You only fill in one form even if you apply to schools in other boroughs/LEAs. You apply to the LA where you live, regardless of which schools you apply to.

Forget about the main application dates, you will not be here in time for those.

Your children will go to school in the school year with their age cohort. So if your 10 year old is 11 before/ or on 31st of August; they will go into year 6. The confusion is that you will be applying for two schools pretty much at the same time. One to go to immediately, and a secondary school for September. You will be too late to be considered in the "normal" application round.

However once the offers of school places are made in March you can join the waiting lists for school places at the schools you want. You will jump to the place on those lists you would be at if you had applied at the normal time. So if you live next door to a school you will be "probably" very close to the top; children who are fostered or siblings may be above you. As a lot of schools have movement on their lists you will have a good chance of getting a place.

When you get here the LA can advise you further.

Other things to know are, Catholic and C of E (and Jewish and Hindu) schools are part of the State system, but may use attendance at a particular church or other faith grounds as part of their selection criteria. So if you live next door you may be lower than someone who lives further away. There are some Grammar schools, selective secondary schools, in the London area, who select by ability. There are also schools which test all applicants, place them into broad ability bands, and the recruit a percentage of applicants from each band.

The LA is obliged to find you a school place within a reasonable time. If the place they find you is too far away, they have to provide transport, however in London this is usually in the form of the free travel pass. You children will be expected to get themselves to school by public buses (there are no yellow school buses). It is different somewhere like Guildford.

Your children are likely to have a gap between arriving and getting a school place. You can home school or give them a holiday.

BTW I don't know of a tubes stop or place called Holdon? Do you mean Holdon Road in Twickenham? You might want to start on the TFL website.

Sorry if you 10 year old is 11 on/before 31st August 2013 they will start in year 6 when you arrive, and go into year 7 in September.

Sorry scuba I haven't answered your question, but just off out for the day.(am late ) I will answer this evening.

There isn't a tube stop called Holdon...

You could consider the Croydon/Surrey border. Very easy transport into central London (15-30 mins depending on where you start from, into Victoria/London Bridge/Waterloo). Plenty of good primaries in the south Croydon area and then at secondary you've got a couple of good comps (Riddlesdown/Warlingham). Croydon itself isn't the prettiest of towns but it's fantastic for commuting and surrounded by all the green-and-leafy you'll ever need...

Holborn.

Some, but not many, state schools are on the good school guide website. They have "catchment maps" that show where students have come from. It might help you get an idea.

Holborn is much more accessible to Kings cross/Euston Station (only a couple of stops on the tube vs several stop and a walk from tottenham court raod from Waterloo) so I'd be inclined to go north.

St Albans is nice but no idea what the schools are like but 36 min commute into Kings cross and only a couple of stops to Holborn.

Sorry, yes. Holborn is what I meant and after reviewing the train map extensively, I agree that Kings Cross is my ideal station for my husband. I've heard good things about going north, so would love suggestions in that direction.

If its Holborn it is also quite easily accessible from Liverpool street and the East.

I'm sooooo glad I live in Scotland: we do have defined catchments up here, so you can know with certainty which school you are going to go to. :) In most areas, you even have a choice between non-denominational and Catholic.

The difficulty can be in finding a map which shows you the catchment boundaries - you can put in a post code and it'll tell you which primary/secondary school it is served by, but if you are trying to work out where to buy/rent because there is certain schools you are interested in, then it's more difficult

You can still do placing requests if you want to: ds has just gone to a different secondary (5-10 minute further walk away) to the one that his primary school feeds to.

Ohhhhh, Holborn, of course! In that case yes, north London is probably a smarter choice for you. Good luck.

I would not rely on the Good Schools Guide catchments for one moment. They are wildly out of date, unrealistic and better and more accurate info can be found (for free) on the LEA website in the admissions booklet, published online.

I feel for anyone who bought or rented close to my DS's primary on the basis of the GSC info.

Blu - that's a thought (on catchment areas). Thanks.
I looked it up for my local schools and found some interesting results.

www.islington.gov.uk/services/schools-learning/5-16/admissions/cut-off-distance-maps/Pages/2012-13.aspx

www.islington.gov.uk/publicrecords/library/Education-and-skills/Information/Leaflets/2012-2013/(2012-09-13)-Secondary-Brochure-2013-14.pdf

This is why I'm not convinced I can even get my kids into a school I choose. We'll be arriving after all the regular enrollment dates, I haven't a clue where we're actually going to be living yet, now how to go about finding the right school. And even if I did pick one I thought was good, I realize my chances of getting into it are ridiculously low since I haven't a clue as to what I'm doing. :)

I think that's why I would rather get some town recommendations where we can shop for a flat and not worry too much about a specific school, but know that all of them around there are decent and my kids will be okay.

OP if I were you, I'd consider renting somewhere near the station in Cambridge - about 50 minutes from King's Cross and consistently good primary and secondary schools. Lots of good quality Victorian housing near the station, too.

50 minutes is farther away that we want to live. Of course, good schools is great, but if my DH is on the train two hours a day, that's two hours that he isn't at home with us. I would really rather split the distance. Any good ideas for towns a bit closer?

St Albans (again!)