How many AS subjects

[Moominmammacat]

Is there any point in doing four AS subjects? My DS can only find three which interest him and I would prefer three good grades to four mediocre. How many universities actually ask for the fourth? I can only find Warwick ...

It is the norm to do 4 AS subjects and carry 3 onto A2. A DC not doing 4 ASs would be viewed as unusual if they were academically capable.

If a DC is applying to a university that gives a points offer rather than grades then the result of the dropped AS can contribute to the points offer. eg an A grade at AS is worth 60 UCAS points.

A significant number of people only take 3 AS judging by the UCAS admissions forms I see, although how many started 4 then dropped 1 can't tell. But it does limit your options.

It is also wise to bear in mind that there can be a big jump between GCSE and A level work and it is not uncommon for A* GCSE students to struggle with some subjects (in my house it was Maths which resulted in an E at AS).

If you only start with 3 subjects and one doesn't work out, you have no fall back position.

*It is the norm to do 4 AS subjects and carry 3 onto A2. A DC not doing 4 ASs would be viewed as unusual if they were academically capable.

If a DC is applying to a university that gives a points offer rather than grades then the result of the dropped AS can contribute to the points offer. eg an A grade at AS is worth 60 UCAS points.*

This. Unless academically incapable 4 is very important.

I imagine most schools will insist on 4. But even if they don't it's still a good idea. There's quite a jump from GCSE to AS and doing 4 allows scope for one subject to not work out as expected and therefore be dropped. We struggled to find 4 subjects eldest ds wanted to do; he has just got a U in a subject he was adamant he wanted to take and is now going to be doing another AS in a subject he previously refused to consider ....

Yes, all good points ... and school is pushing for four ... but he's doing music and already got three x Grade 8 distinctions so he's not short of points. Just some places might not accept those points and I really can't find a fourth subject. Absolutely take your point about one not working out though

It is true that only 3 subjects count, but it is not a waste to do 4 or 5 AS levels.

For example, it is a real bonus to do an AS level in a MFL. It makes a huge difference to your long-term grasp of the language.

There are many so-called "facilitating" subjects that could be studied at AS level, such as mathematics and the sciences. Even if they don't count towards university offers, they will provide the student with cognitive challenges that will stay with them for many years.

Any subject taken for the pure enjoyment is worth it.

Most schools will set up five option blocks for AS level, where the student chooses four and the fifth turns into study periods frees. Taking only three AS courses means that the student has an awful lot of self-directed time. The type of student who does only three AS levels is also the type who needs a lot of pastoral care, and should not be in charge of perhaps 10 hours of personal study time.

A note about UCAS points -

Not many high to medium calibre courses really count UCAS points for AS courses, Certificate of Personal Development, ABRSM, pony club etc.

You have to look at the specifics for each course, but many specify GCEs taken to A2 only.

It's important to check potential courses before making final decisions (if that is possible with 16/17 year olds).

At all of the unis where I have been involved in admissions, offers are based on A2 exams, but UCAS points are used in deciding between two otherwise equal candidates.

Also when deciding whether or not to accept students who just missed their grades, we use UCAS points.

So if you drop a grade at A2 but have additional points from an AS you are more likely to have your place confirmed.

But if your DS is thinking of Music and aiming for a performance based degree, then of course the time might be better spent practicing as the audition will probably be of more importance than an additional AS.

I'm trying to picture how this works out in offers. Surely offers are based on criteria for students regardless of competition? Are you referring to Clearing procedures, creamteas?

Where I work, we have a target number of offers to make each year, which is worked out on an estimate of the number that will convert to firms and get the required grades. Usually about 1/4 of the students we make an offer to will arrive.

Over-recruitment means massive fines and under-recruitment means loss of income (job cuts, course closures etc) so it is always a tricky area to get right. Once an offer is made we can't withdraw it and we legally have to accept students who name us as their firm/insurance if they get their grades.

If there are more applicants that the target number of offers that we can make we use the potential points alongside the other information as one of the ways to decide who should receive an offer .

He's still adamant he wants to do three ... having read all these points to him ... do you think we could explain it away by saying he wanted more time to practice. He'll be applying to uni not music college though ...

No, I think any 'explanation' makes him sound like an academically weaker candidate. This is a seriously bad idea in an ever more competitive environment.

Whether it 'counts' in points or not it certainly counts in the overall strength of the application.

How about an EPQ? If he's rally adamant?

He's still adamant he wants to do three

Then he is behaving like a brat. At uni he will have to do units/modules he doesn't like. In work he will have to do some things he doesn't like. Now is a good time to get ready for that and it will get him into uni.

What are his other subjects? Could he do something linked to them? You have said music so what about performance studies, or music technology?

At the end of the day, there is no point trying to force him. You can't make someone study, and a failed mark on a 4th AS would look worse than not taking it in the first place. If one subject doesn't work out, he could always repeat year 12.

The are lots of unis that don't require a 4th AS, so although his choices might be narrowed, he could still attend a good one, providing the other 3 go well.

Oh, you knowledgeable people ... most people seem to manage four so I suppose he'll just have to get on with it. Thanks for all advice.