Is it GCSE grades alone that determine 6th form offers?

[circular]

From what I see form most of the non-selective school prospectus', the general minimum requirement is 5 or 6 GCSE A* to C, including B's in the proposed AS subjects (maybe A for maths).

Application deadlines vary, but it always be before the final GCSE's are taken if applying while in yr11.

In practice, though, many of the external places are going to those with straight A*/A's.

So, is it done on predicted grades / target grades?
If modules have already been taken in yr10 (maybe earlier than they should have been, without the desired results, so retake on the cards) how much weight does this give?
How much does extra CA and other general stuff on the school report get considered?

Our applications were done on predicted year 11 and actual for those already sat. I suppose if you think those grades are not good enough and resits are on the cards you could put a note - resit planned for year 11, or something. I don't know if that helps or not, if you are talking about a difficult to access sixth form (which you are if they only take A A*)

How much does the other information get taken into account? In my daughters case, the 'other information' won her an offer. She actually applied for a competitive course (they accept only 1/3 of applicants) without one of their general requirements because she didn;t pick it at GCSE (when she applied she didn't think she stood a chance but it's her dream so she had to try). She had to prove through a portfolio she prepared at home in her own time and through the written personal statement and interview that she has a talent and passion. It was that which won her a place and they have changed their conditions for her so the offer now relates to the exams she is actually taking.

If something is tough, I'd say go for it. Then give them everything they want to see in interview and reflect passion for the college/sixth form, extra curricular and courses/careers in the personal statement. And yes, take the personal statement seriously just in case.

My DCs state comp, offers places in preference to internal students, then excess places to external, and has a waiting list. Offers vary between C and A* (Further Maths), if you don't get the grades you will have to argue for your place, those expected not to get the grades are recommended to get a back up plan. Interview does also play a part (even internal candidates are interviewed).

Same as Mummytime.

Usual minimum to do A levels is 5 GCSEs grades A* to C, however many A level courses will not have you unless you have a B or above as you will definitely struggle otherwise, with the demands of the A level course. Unless a school/college is over-subscribed this is usually the only requirement (although they might say otherwise) as they can't afford to turn students away. Independent sector will be more picky about grades especially if they have the luxury of turning people away if they are likely to have enough students.

Basically, for most non-selective state sixth forms, the thing that determines whether you get in is whether you apply! Most will have places for most kids and will try hard to fit them in. It's not nearly as stressful as it's made out to be and for most pupils it's a done deal as soon as they put the form in the post.

DCs sixth form is very oversubscribed!

Kez - Well done to your DD. I know from your other posts she works really hard. Is it some kind of art course she is taking, or A levels?

I should have said, sixth forms where we are are very oversubscribed. Many schools don;t have one, and those that do, understandably give priority to internal applicants. DD's current school does have a sixth form which is also over-subscribed, even though results are not great (about 20% A/A*) and mediocre leavers destinations. DD does not want to stay there for various reasons.

So lack of school places.
There is a local sixth form college, but that has even worse results than her school, and does not offer all the standard A level subjects.

Understhand the need to get A;s and B's in the AS subjects. But although these are the minimum requirements, it seems to be those predicted 8 A's or better getting the offers. So I think DD will have a problem getting an offer with her mixture of A & B targerts. One thing possibly in her favour is that she does not want to do sciences, and they are generally more heavily oversubscribed.

I asked out Headteacher about entry to our sixth form because it seemed one section was over-represented. It could be him giving the PC answer, but he firmly said that, being a State school, he has to follow policy to the letter or else he gets into trouble with irate parents causing a fuss and making appeals, just like they do for Y7 entry.

Go to the schools and ask them the precise detail of their admissions policy and their oversubscription criteria.

Senua - it's a Foundation school (may have recently become an academy). They have their own yr7 entry criteria based on 7 year place if worship attendance. At 6th form, this does not apply but RS compulsory as a 5th AS unless taking further maths (which DD would not be).

The entrance criteria on the website states the usual 5 A* to C minimum with specific subject requirements as per prospectus. It also states that in practice, due to competition for places, successful
applications will have 8 good passes.

The application form clearly states there are no interviews, which is unfortunate as this is where DD would shine. Apart from GCSE list and predictions and A level choices, there are two other sections.
One is for religious info - which DD will fall down on unless DD does her DofE voluntary work for a Christian organisation.

The other is sport and extra CA which she would be strong on, mainly for music. Her main reason for choosing this school over other local options is because of it's strong music department. Given the choice, she would prefer a specialist music school, but that's out if the question.

Although subject choice apart from music iOS not rigid, being not overly acadrmic, she needs to take subjects she enjoys and finds easy. She has two definite choices which do not clash on the option blocks at this school, but do at her own.

Re the actual oversubscriiption criteria, I have checked a few other schools in the neighbouring LA? And they have quite rigid rule in that external offers go first to those where there are spaces in all 4 AS choices, highest grades first.

I will call the school of interest to try and find out more.

Yes, it's a specific art based diploma. Not difficult to get into generally at normal colleges but she has been offered conditional at a specialist art college with amazing resources including (important to me) business links!

I agree with the other poster who says have a back up if you go for a tough choice but after my daughters experience, if there is nothing to lose, I would say go for it.

I suspect the interviews for the tough choices will be really demanding (certainly my DD reports the specialist college being a million times more demanding if her than the normal college) and she says it was really good experience, even if she hadn't got a conditional.

Oh, just seen...no interviews. What a great pity.

Kez - that sounds brilliant. Your DD sounds a lot like mine in that she knows what she wants to do and prefers to be amongst like minded people.
Unfortunately, a specialist music school would be out of the question for DD.

The final back up would have to be her current school. But that would mean both a compromise on subjects, and an inferior music department. And she has already got it into her head that she only has one more year there...

She sees the music as the bigger problem, even though she attends a Saturday music school.
I think the subject choice is more of a problem if she wants to take the university route, as she is more likely to do well in her first choice of subjects.

Started to look slightly further afield, but those schools have tiebreaker criteria on distance.

Can she look at her ultimate goal as a career and work backwards?

When my DD did that, immersing herself 24/7 for two years in a Diploma based on the craft she wants to pursue seemed the best option. However, she has a very different grade profile than your daughter at C/D (which is obviously not particularly suited to A Level anyway).

Without an interview, I would think the applicants personal statement is going to have to sing and dance. If they are intent on only picking A/A* then they might just turn a lesser profile application down but if they do read everything then it's important to make the rest of the application make them want her.

My DD's experience is similar to Kez's (well done to her BTW!).

DD has applied to go to an out of the county 6th form. DD has a conditional offer of 7 GCSEs over all plus As or Bs in the subjects she has chosen for AS. There was an interview before the offer was made. Very informal, more a chat about the subjects chosen, what DD wants to do after etc.

They did advise DD to have a plan B in case anything went wrong so DD has also got a place at her current school's 6th form.

Fingers, legs and eyes are now crossed!

Kez - DD has already done that.to an extent. She wants to teach music, ideally instrument. Would consider primary school teaching with music specialism, but would not want to teach in a state secondary - hates the thought if all those year 7 to 9s that don't want to learn.
Between ourselves and the careers office, the best way forward that keeps all options open is a Music degree first. Then teacher training after, if needed.

Gnome - thats quite a challenging offer, nut at least its an offer. everything crossed here for your DD too. Would her own school sixth form be OK if it came to that?

It's going from bad to worse here. Spoke to desired school and they confirmed that the external applicants are selected by grades and in practice are usually all A/A* students. Not very forthcoming about the religion ethos bit, no pastor sign off ad fir yr7 entry, but seems they expect some kind of worship attendance. Accepting of the compulsory RE also, but it doesnt have to be a 5th AS if RS chosen for A2 from the outset - which would suit DD as her 4th to give her a writem subject, although she has noit done RS GCSE.

Not able to discuss much with DD as she is overloaded with the CA"s sprung on them this week, now all the early GCSEs have finished. And 3 performances in the next week.
Did have another check through the A level option blocks at current school, and worse rhan I thought. Not only do her options 2 and 3 clash, but Music in the same block ad both her likely 4th choices.

Need to step up the search.

Sorry Gnome, I read that as 7 A's. if it's 7 A* to C''s that's not so bad. A/B minimum in the subject fairly standard. Good luck once again.

A/B request in a subject to be studied is standard for many the academic A levels and from the experience of some students I know, I can fully understand why.

Our closest Grammar School requires an average point per best 8 GCSEs and A/B in subjects to be studied. I don't know what the level is because we didn't explore that sixth form but it was the first time I had heard of such an assessment.

We have suggested to DD that if she doesnt get As in her chosen subjects then she might be wise to rethink her choices. She is aiming for fairly academic subjects so will need to be confident that she can hack it at the higher level. She has done an A level already (twilight MFL) and knows that it is a big jump from GCSE to A level.

Gnome - How would that work then? I thought offers were for the chosen subjects? Presume there would have to be spaces in other subjects to be able to make the change. And would the school allow it for a student that say hot a B that was still acceptable, but wanted to change?

Kez - I've seen that points system on some if the Grammars too. All We have a super-selective close by. They want A/A* in subjects being taken, and don't like to see anything below a B. Very fee external places, but encourage non-science applicants, they said definitely worth DD applying, given her subject choice. Not sure about her being back into such a selective environment though, as she couldn't wait to leave her selective prep school. Very stubborn and likes to set her own work pace.

We had open evenings/open days between September and December. You need to look for the timings because some only do one (and it might clash) but others - usually the bigger colleges - do far more, so if you know in advance the days, you can time them to get to them all.

If you have the time, I would recommend doing that unless you are very comfortable that you know the provision available.

We have no sixth form so everyone has to go out and look and the major colleges come into the school as well, so it is perhaps more common to go to them all here than in other places. The children like to go to be able to join in the conversation the next day!

Circular - the offer is As/Bs in the subjects she wants to study plus 7 passes overall. The 6th form offers a review interview once results are out. At that point they expect a certain amount of movement between courses.

In addition to this offer DD is holding an offer of 5 GCSEs at her current school as a plan B.