Super-selective or all-round?

[mydogisinsane]

I've got a bit of a dilemma and need some sage advice from you clever parents.

DS is at a non-academically selective prep and is doing very well. In the top sets for everything, in the top 5 pupils in his year academically. Fairly sporty too and very happy. He has friends of all abilities. His prep has suggested to us that DS would have a decent chance of getting an academic scholarship for senior school.

Where I live there are no very academically selective senior schools, the nearest are an hours drive or train journey away - a door-to-door commute to one of these would be 3 hours a day!

There is a lovely, traditional type school within a short drive of my home, but it is not very academically selective, so its results are consequently lower. We have visited all the schools in question, and really like the non-selective one, it seems to offer so much more than just academia, it felt like DS would have fun there, loads of extra-curricular activities, nice atmosphere, not at all "stuck-up", great sport, drama, pastoral care etc. etc.

DS would have a great shot at a scholarship and even being put forward for one by his current school would put him in the scholar's programme.

I was quite happy with my decision, (he is doing well in a non-selective environment at the moment) but, children talk, and some of the other parents have found out about our plans and are openly critical of our choice. I have had comments like "why do you want to throw away his guarantee of 10 A's", and "it's a rubbish school, they take anyone". (there are some very odd parents where he is, who feel they can comment on every aspect of other people's lives). These parents are quite happy to make their DC's do this awful commute, if it means them going to the super-selective school.

I should stick with the decision I am happy with shouldn't I? I know that and I am not at all weak-willed but I am still feeling a little twitch of doubt and would welcome any comments from people who might have been in a similar position.

Sorry to nit pick but I don't know what you mean by 'not academically selective school'.

Do you mean its not a selective school?

Or it is selective but its academics isn't particularly strong?

Or .. :)

It's entrance exam is fairly easy to pass (about 60% to pass I believe). Whereas the other school requires something like an 80% score, meaning they only accept really clever children (hence their excellent GCSE/A Level results)

They are all fee-paying.

I believe the school I prefer does select in terms of behaviour, just not brains especially - so lower % at GCSE.

I would go for the non-selective. There is no reason why he won't fulfil his potential and still get 10 A*s and he'll have a great time by the sound of it, with less pressure of keeping up with peers and the stress of the commute. You've made a good decision I think. Good luck to him.

A friend pays £15K a year for a non-academic school that doesn't even feature in the top 300 Sunday Times list. The DD is predicted Bs and Cs for her GCSEs. Not much to show for nearly £200k in fees eh?

To me the choice is a no-brainer.

pusheed luckily the school I like is in the top 250 and has been for several years. Its results this past year were excellent, but that is not a constant year-on-year occurrence.

You say it's a no-brainer - and please don't get me wrong, I want him to fulfill his potential. But I want him to be happy too, and to enjoy all aspects of school life.

I don't like the thought of paying £15K pa for travelling 3 hours a day and then being unable to take part in any after-school activities (or he'll miss the train or school bus). I can't pick him up as I work (unlike most of the Mums who will be sending their DC's to the selective school).

I don't know if the supposedly "guaranteed" 10 A* are worth the misery of that - that is my dilemma. And I do feel it would be a misery for him - get up at 5.45am, travel 90 minutes, school at 8.20am, work all day, travel 90 minutes, get home at 6pm, do 2 hours homework, eat, go to bed, get up at 5.45 am etc etc.

I'd hate it if that were my life. Wouldn't you?

Decision made I suppose, sorry for wasting your time.

Also pusheed - as he is top 5 in his year at non-selective Prep (top in Maths, Science and Geog) and nominated as academic scholarship material, why do you think he won't carry that through at non-selective secondary?

Was your friends DD in a similar position at Prep?

That commute sounds grim.

Our babysitter achieved 10 As / A*s at our local comp, and she was in a year where only 45% got 5 A to Cs (up from 28% last year!). I'm sure your DS will be absolutely fine in his all-rounder school.

I think the choice is a no-brainer too.

You'd have to have no brain to put your DS through that long commute.

If he's bright he'll get 10 As at the non-selective AND have a full/enjoyable social life and not suffer from stress/exhaustion.

My DD (13) has a long commute to get to her grammar school (complicated but we live abroad, and it's her only option for going to an English-language school), nearly 1 hour each way (so a good deal less than your DS would have) and she's really suffering physically from it. She went to bed at 5pm this afternoon because she was so tired after the school week and will probably sleep through to tomorrow morning. I would love her to have a shorter journey time, but she likes the school and doesn't want to change.

My DS is at a very selective school here it's cool to be clever all the lessons move at a very fast pace and there is an A/ Oxbridge culture from the moment they walk in the door in yr 9. All non sporty extra curricular activities are exceedingly intellectually stimulating and are well attended. Everything is geared up for and aimed at the very bright. It's not everyone's cup of tea I accept that and I suspect some find it a little serious and feel under pressure. Somehow you have to work out what will suit your DS. Don't listen to those other parents what do they know about your son and what is best for him and your corcumstances go on your* gut instincts.

I wasn't making the case for a long commute. I was making the case for not choosing a non academic fee paying school. In the OP's scenario I would rather send my DCs to a state school and use the money saved on extra curricular stuff and holidays.

At first my friend didn't particularly care about the non academic aspect. His DD got to mix with 'his kind of people' and that was worth £15k pa to him. But now that he sees what his DD's predicted grades are he won't stop complaining about the school. I can't say that I have much sympathy for the guy.

No school in England guarantees a string of 10 A*s.

happy if there's an Oxbridge culture from the moment new boys walk in the door of your very selective very expensive school in Y9, why do you suppose that two thirds don't get in?

Incidentally OP, I had a two hour commute back from my London day school each day and it was one of the best parts of my day (there was quite a group of us travelling together).

3 hours is too long. Stick with your gut, you can always enrich if need be. Non-selective schools really value their bright pupils so they won't let him slide.

It depends on the proficiency of the teaching Colleger.

3 hours is just fine/ too long depending on the child and the circumstances of the commute.

3 hours is ridiculous and no school is worth that!

I actually liked it. An hour in the morning and two hours in the afternoon. It was fine. We all liked it.

Non-selective schools really value their bright pupils

So there is some additional benefit from being one of the bright students that the school is keen to attract? That is interesting....

3 hours is a long commute if unless the journey is part of the fun.

My DD1 (13) has an hour and 15 commute each way to and from school. When she got in this afternoon she didn't collapse! She did a bit of recreational fighting with her sibs went out and sang in a music festival, cam back, watched an episode of studio 60 on the sunset strip en famille and wandered off to bed at about 9:30. She loves her bus journey. It gives her quality time with her iPod. When I was at school, because of the way the buses were, I either had a journey home by bus that took about 1.5 hours or a walk home that took half an hour BUT wasn't possibly a bit dodgy in dusk (through woods, along a train track ). I did walk quite often though. I was perfectly happy with the bus though.

Yellotip this is not a point scoring excerise I was describing the life my DS experiences in a very selective school some may want this others dont. It is for the individual to decide. Having experienced it first hand I can see that being in a super selective has many advantages but you have look at the individual child.

@happy your DS's experiences are essentially irrelevant though since he boards. The OP is looking at optimising a set of potential circumstances which include long travel times for 'academic' selectivity. Obviously no fee paying school is truly academically selective since the academic criteria are subordinate to the financial.

Can paying £15k a year guarantee A*s in any child, then?
I didn't think the statistics worked like that, you know - the school turns out a very impressive pass rate therefore every child who goes there will achieve the same pass rate. Whereas if you send a highly able child to a school with a mediocre pass average that child will achieve a mediocre pass average....Is that the way you think it works, Pusheed?

Blu - You mean schools can't really guarantee 10 A*? Those lying bastards! Thanks for enlightening me Blu (where is that damned emoticon for sarcasm?)

My income level is such that paying £15k pa just so that DS can mix with the 'right kind of people' is not an option.

But I accept that some parents would rather shop at Selfridges for a white T- Shirt than at Tescos because of the ambience, coffee shop and the absence of mums in sweat pants and Ugg boots.

Yes my DS boards but I tried to explain previously I was describing the all pervading culture that will exist at a super selective whether it be day or boarding. I'm sure if you go to St Paul's it's the same. By its nature this all pervading culture cannot exist in a non selective school. I know that the very bright are likely to do well anywhere and have the same out comes in terms of universities etc but the atmosphere cannot be the same. The $64 000 000 is does it matter or in this case does matter enough to justify a long commute. I genuinely don't know the answer but I suspect not.

Also worth being a bit about levels of selectivity at some independents. It's a vital part of the marketing: more emphasis on the 'your child is very special but at the same time privileged to be here' and less on the 'thanks for the £33k'.