In what respect is Private better than state education?

[halfrom]

Reading many of the posts I came to the conclusion that Private wasn't always better than state.

My main reasoning is A) If an entrance exam i.e 11+ is passed and the teachers at a particular school are supposed to be brilliant teachers, then why are some under performing students asked to leave. Surely the teachers can teach them to their required level. B) Some teachers are hand picked for ability as was my dh as a leader in a very specialised subject has visited most private/ Independant schools when required. However, he has also taught joe bloggs from down the street. Hence the children had same tutor, gained same results. Joe bloggs paid far less as a school didn't charge more. A friend has dd who has private Drama and speech coaching on saturday, does exams through I imagine same board as Private schools, and is a fantastic public speaker. So how do Privately educated children gain?

You pay for one thing IMO discipline, the children cannot get away with monkey business, distracting other children, low level distruption and they are made to do their best.
I have a child was is bone bloody idol but she does her homework every night because if she doesn't she'll stay in at lunchtime and complete it, there is nowhere to hide

Freedom from the national curriculum (although that's more of an issue at primary age)

It depends - I don't think that private education is better than state education overall. But in some places and for some people the available private education is better than the available state education.

It all comes down to what you as an individual family think makes a good education.

Freedom from the National Curriculum is a major point (but that also puts the onus on you to check what they do actually offer and to what level they deliver it - exams? leavers' destinations?)

Also to consider:

Class size
Specialist teachers at prep age
Provision for sports, drama and music
Facilities (eg labs at prep age, open space and sports, on site pool)
Co-curricular activity

Freedom from the national curriculum and SATs
Focus on education rather than exams
All extra curricular onsite and within the school day
Absolute insistence on impeccable manners
Latin and French from an early age
Specialist teachers from year 4
Chronological history rather than all those meaningless projects
Rigorous teaching of grammar
Expectation of reasonable competence in a couple of languages by 16, even for the non-brilliant
Development of reasonable social competence even in the very shy
Boarding

What the OP describes, moreover, isn't really reliance on the state sector; it's state sector heavily supplemented with tutors and extras. This is just another method of accessing private education

As other posters have pointed out already, I think it depends on the school. In my experiences the benefits of independent primary were a more varied curriculum, more trips, more fun stuff and more attention. On the downside in our particular case the teaching was appalling. My DD1 was only about level 3 in maths when she left at 11 (she is predict A/A* in her upcoming GCSE). We only experienced one year at independent secondary for one child and the pastoral care and discipline left a lot to be desired. The state secondaries my kids go to now range from generally superb to good, the state primary that my youngest child went to was fantastic. It totally depends on the school. Some independents are great and some are not - same with state schools.

The OP misses the point into many ways. You seem chained to results and that is only a tiny part of an independent education.

I also agree with AMuminScotland - it depends on what is on offer where you are.

None of the primary schools where we are have any playing fields at all whereas my sons' prep does & the school has 3 full time sports staff. My oldest son has been playing in music concerts from Y1 (recorder and now flute) a couple of times a year, plus singing in the school choir (rehersals x2 per week) - the school has 2 full time music teachers.

Both of my boys are summer birthdays so I think the smaller class sizes have allowed them to get the attention they need. It makes a difference if there are 15 children with a teacher and a TA.

One difference that is often overlooked is that the pupils are not herded about like sheep and told to run to the teacher every time there's an incident. At a good independent school the children are taught how to resolve conflicts themselves. They are generally treated like mini adults, given responsibility and shown respect.

The children at my DS's old comp, by contrast, were very passive, and the system very authoritarian.

Another key difference is the atmosphere of study and culture. Several of my DS's teachers have PhDs in their subject. All of his teachers come across as bright, intellectual and cultured.

Private is only available to those with a spare £25,000 per child per year before tax.
It therefore excludes more than 80% of the population
whether or not they are bright and interesting
ALSO
schools vary SO much that only people who have worked in schools of all sizes and styles all over the country.
which my DH has
and his view is that it utterly depends on the individual area and the individual school but generally an excellent comp that leaves money free for other things is better than private
:-)

I'm even going to comment what ever I say those deluded soles in state ed.will continue to tell me that whatever my DS receives at his top boarding school their DC's receive at their state comp. And when all else fails will resort to criticising me for boarding my DS.

Do private schools in Scotland still have to do CfE?

happygardening
your son will receive a fantastic education that will open doors that my kids will never know of
but chances are they will all hang around together outside the abbey on sunny Saturday afternoons eating Reeves cheese straws!
If I had the money to pay for that school I would consider it. But I don't.
And if I was like my friends at the gym with husbands away on business the whole time I'd consider boarding. But I'm not.

"Private is only available to those with a spare £25,000 per child per year before tax."
It therefore excludes more than 80% of the population"*
Yawn!I think I've read this before. Come on seeker where are you ElaineReese here's another opportunity to bang on about how unfair indie ed. is!

Its not an Abbey its a cathedral and as far as I'm aware on Saturday afternoon he's very involved in his favourite sport!

happy
I did not say it was unfair. I just pointed out that it is by no means available to all. Like Lambourghinis.
The unfair bit is that politicians run state schools down and then wonder why they are not all as good as the ones round here.
Please remember that I went to selective girls indie schools till I was 18 and my nephew is at the same school as your DS.

cross post -
yup - brain mush on the big building in the next town along :-)
Buttercross then?

No its not available to all but if I chose not to send my DS it will still not make it available to all or even some. If you close every indie in the UK state schools will not become like my DS's school you know that as well as I do.
TalkinPeace2 as you probably know the school does offer generous bursaries.

TBH happy I'm a LOT more chilled about your choice than I am about any form of state funded selective education (either by academic or religious criteria)

which brings us back to the OPs point about cramming for grammars etc

my parents generation just do not GET that grammars are no longer the meritocratic engine they were in the 1950's
there are now so few that they are middle class enclaves of parents who probably could afford private but choose not to.

And don't get me started on religious schools that are allowed to teach distorted versions of history, ethics and science, funded out of my taxes

The UKs boarding schools are actually a rather good earner for the country as lots of overseas pupils (from countries that have been dumb enough to restrict private schools) come here and have the effect of remitting money to the UK.

Is it better then?

Talkin are your children at a particular grammar then?

Love the idea that I could afford private but choose not too. And you know this about the parents exactly how?

"Development of reasonable social competence even in the very shy"

That may happen in some private schools, but definitely not all, and it also happens in plenty of state schools (some have routine extra classes for children who need extra help in this area). I went to private schools for ten years and it didn't do anything for my social competence. If anything that particular environment reinforced my shy bookish habits and limited my social contacts so much to a particular type of person that I developed much less social competence than I might have done elsewhere. It's going to depend a lot on the child, but I wouldn't personally send a shy child to a private school with the expectation that it would improve their social competence, even if I might still send them there for other reasons. I don't think you can generalise about state v. private in this area.

blushingcrow if your talking about a relatively small number of top indies of course its better.
Yellowtip couldn't agree more with the comment a "middle class enclaves of parents who probably could afford private but choose not to." At £33 000+ PA (for one child) that has to come out of you salary after you've paid tax, mortgage food utilities etc and everything else. I don't think there are many "middle class families" who can afford it but don't. Only the seriously wealthy/those on bloody good incomes can. In fact I think I've read somewhere that only 1% of the population earn more than £100 000 PA and thats still not enough to afford those fees if you've got a mortgage etc so your definitely not talking about your average middle class family especially as they're likely to have at least two children! Hence the rise in foreign children.

To make it even more comprehensible thats £3000 a month with extras. Thats more than the vast majority of the population earn!