In what respect is Private better than state education?

[halfrom]

Reading many of the posts I came to the conclusion that Private wasn't always better than state.

My main reasoning is A) If an entrance exam i.e 11+ is passed and the teachers at a particular school are supposed to be brilliant teachers, then why are some under performing students asked to leave. Surely the teachers can teach them to their required level. B) Some teachers are hand picked for ability as was my dh as a leader in a very specialised subject has visited most private/ Independant schools when required. However, he has also taught joe bloggs from down the street. Hence the children had same tutor, gained same results. Joe bloggs paid far less as a school didn't charge more. A friend has dd who has private Drama and speech coaching on saturday, does exams through I imagine same board as Private schools, and is a fantastic public speaker. So how do Privately educated children gain?

That's fine. But you are standing by a sweeping stereotype so I will stand by my 'crock of shit' response.

Hmm, interesting: equally but in different ways I suppose. The state funding of selective schools is obviously problematic, but where that is the state provision provided, I can't really blame parents for using it.

Fee paying is, at least, not funded through my taxes (if we don't think about charitable status etc).

pagwatch was that to me? What's the sweeping stereotype that I'm standing by, if it was?

It was shit. My high exam marks were so not worth it all.

Nothing pisses me off more than this.
Your parents gave you the opportunites I could have only dreamt of, had. You achieved because of those opportunities and now dare to complain it was so not worth it. What a spoilt madam

Original
What about state funding of religious schools that are free to teach their own views on history, science and the ethical treatment of women and non believers?

Or the fact that state funding of selective schools in London (particularly the superselectives) contributes massively to the carbon footprint of the city in school run fuel?

The Charity status bugs me too - but I was surprised to read in the census that I linked to that 35% of places now have some sort of bursary funding which has to be said is pretty good

Well anyway, I'm about to log off and eat, so I'll reply as though it was.

Despite what I may have said in the heat or frustration of the moment on MN, I know there are many different reasons for choosing independent - although of course none of them are of any use if you're neither relatively wealthy or have bright children. I don't think everyone there is a big old aristocrat or anything like that.

I object, politically, to private education, and although I know some people who've chosen it and still like or respect them, I don't respect that particular decision they've made.

TP - yep, all maddening! No argument on that from me.

No, thoriginalsteamingnit

It was to thisisnotmylife. Who said 'i stand by what I said'.

heswall, that's really not fair
you don't know what makes the poster judge the results were 'so not worth it'
there's more to life than exam results you know

heswall- you have no idea what prompted that person to post as she did. How dare you judge her like that.

My DD's independent school suits her because it makes being clever cool, instead of isolating, as her state primary did.

There's even a code for it: I want my children to go to a school where the parents care about their children's education.

In many state schools, (and mine) if you were bright and showed it you got your head kicked in. This usually comes from children who have terrible backgrounds. At my school there were many families with problems with substance abuse, mental health problems, neglect and terrible poverty. Children from those backgrounds are understandably not very well adjusted and often quite angry. They take it out on other children they perceive as 'weaker'.

Yes, you can get those problems in families with a better socio-economic status but they are more common in those stuck at the bottom of the heap. Yes, you can also get problems of bullying and other miseries at independent schools but they are perceived as being less.

It's all so desperately sad and is the elephant in the room when it comes to the education system in this country.

TheOriginal I have no issue with you objecting to private schools at all from an ideological standpoint. Your opinion on educational provision in this country is as valid as mine.

I struggle with those posters who make massive generalisations about parents in either sector and for example my motives for choosing private school for my children. Most parents are trying to do the best they can for their children within the framework of options open to them. Its reasonable to question the structure of that framework of options but some posters extrapolate that into questioning and judging individuals; that is what I have a problem with.

You know what, I only wish I'd had all the problems that come with private education, there was an actual fire in our school during the year aboves GCSE's. A pupil set the building on fire with children and staff inside it.
Oh to have been forced to learn [rollseyes]

I can't possibly comment on an entire secion of the education system, OP.
But I can tell you what my DC have gained by going to their private schools.

• rigorous and flexible setting from early in primary. And I mean proper setting not different tables in the same room sharing the same teacher.

• hot discipline with high levels of behaviour expected. And action taken quickly and effectively against the badly behaved.

• acres of green space used every day.Particularly important in the early years.

-daily competitive sport, including matches against other schools from year three.

• Specilaist subject teachers from year 3 for everyhting.

• high expectations academically, but equal importance placed upon music, drama, art.

• confidence building forming an integral art of the curriculum. Handshaking, public speaking, competition all expected frm reception.

• proper choice for GCSE options. After the core subjects are covered, DC will get their choices. The timetabling is the shcool's problem not ours!

I won't say I thoight about any of this much when I signed up. But with the joy of hindsight, these are just some of the things we have gained that we wouldn't have got in our local schools. And before anyone tells me they gte all this in their local schools, well good for you. Unless you are my next door neighbour, that doesn't make much difference does it?

"My DD's independent school suits her because it makes being clever cool, instead of isolating, as her state primary did."

But that's not because it's an independent school- it's because it's a good school. There are schools in both sectors that do this- and schools in both sectors that don't.

I actually think this is the crux of the argument. When I have an issue with one of my children's schools, I have an issue with that school, not with state schools as a whole. Ditto when there's something good to say. Private school parents seem to be saying "This is what it good about my child's school - and it's because it's private". And if there's something wrong - "I don't like this about my child's school- but think how much worse it would be in a state school" It's this last mind set, incidentally, that sometimes keeps children at hideous schools long after they should have moved.

Thisisnotmylife how about the fact that my children won't get into at least three of the nearest primary schools because the schools are Christian and my children are Muslim (1 non sibling non faith entrant in total across the 3 schools last year!). The nearest non faith school is three times oversubscribed.

If you are not Christian you have less choice of schools. And making a broad generalisation non Christians are more likely to be minorities who in turn are more likely to be deprived. How about that for an elephant.

Chaz
I'm an atheist. I was the governor of a CofE School :-)
I am TOTALLY against faith being on the admission criteria for ANY state funded school.
RE should remain compulsory to year 9 (as it is the best way to create atheists IMHO) but ALL schools should be forced to accept and learn about ALL faith systems
if they want taxpayers money.

I don't like state-funded faith schools either. I think it's a scandal that state cash is used to support institutional discrimination like that. Most workplaces wouldn't be allowed to get away with it, so why the hell should schools?

The state has an obligation to provide an education for your children Chaz.

(However you can fake religion - faking school fees is a bit more difficult).

Wordfactory my DC are receiving similar at their school, with the exception that specialist lessons such as French, Speech and Drama are taught by specialist teachers from Reception. They also have a pool, do cookery every week and the children are actively encouraged to participate in events for charity.

The school happens to be private. The state school we were allocated did not offer these factors in any measure and we were not accepted at any of the state schools that did.

I cannot obviously state that DC would achieve better in a state school, but he's making great progress in his school and is very happy.

I should also say that the fees are demonstrably less than those being mentioned.

You may also find that if you've got several kids at the school you get % reductions, not quite BOGOF but similar

You can't fake religion if it really matters to you. My DH could not and would not pretend to be Christian in order to get the kids into a better school.

Maybe the state has an obligation to provide an education for my kids but when the state system currently contains so many faith schools (particularly at primary level) I will use the private sector to improve my choices because I have to operate within the system as it exists now.

I appreciate I am fortunate that I have that choice especially as I also went to the kind of state school where I was sworn at in class for getting answers right and girls left at 14 because they were pregnant.

I've often wondered why it's so important to have specialist subject teachers in reception!

Another important thing to remember is that parents who talk about the amazing extra curricular activities at their private schools, the musical instruments, the sport, the pool- often seem to forget that they are paying for all this! I don't pay for my children's eduction except as a tax payer and I wouldn't expect other tax payers to pay for my dd's riding lessons. So I pay for her to ride out of school hours. Private school parents are paying for their children to do this sort of thing in school hours. But they are still paying. It's not free!

I suppose you'd need to hear the kids speaking French with an accent and not saying je suis huit ans (another thread).