A-C GCSE statistics - what's "good" ?

[bloomfieldtj]

Would you be concerned about a non-selective comprehensive school whose students got 63% A-C grades in GCSE (inc Eng & Maths) and of that percentage 29% got A or A* grades in 2011?

Whereas another school we like for DD which is also non-selective, students apparently got 96% A-C grades and of that 51% got A or A* grades.

I sometimes don't understand all these variables. What's your view?

National average is about 45% so sounds pretty good by comparison.

Depends on what the school is like and what your child is like and how well the two match up. Does your DD have a view?

Results-wise, both those schools would be considered 'good'. Obviously the second one has better results. Have you been to look around them both?

Exam results are just a small part of the picture. Some parents make it 99% of their picture - mistakenly in my view. But everyone is different.

Sounds fine to me.

Our school is good, gets 54% but about 10% of the top students in the catchment go to Grammar School. So, add them on as well as dead certs for 5 A to C (EM) and it would be about the same.

At the end of the day, with non-selective, it does come down to the cohort that year - were they a bright cohort on entry, were they not, was it a year when fewer parents decided to try for Grammer (there is an hour journey to our Grammers so it tends to go in waves, some years parents get together to send a group, other years they don't bother so much). With a non selective I would look at results for the past few years but, better than that, visit the school properly and talk to the SLT, teachers and students.

Surely it depends on catchment area - schools with more middle-class catchments tend to get better results.
Are both schools co-ed / mixed ? All girls comps sometimes get better exam results too.
Do both schools set children according to ability?
Would a very academic school suit your child or if they are more average ability would they (or you) be able to cope with them being in a lower set?
Other things that you need to consider which school has better extra-curricular activities ? Which school is easiest to travel too etc.
Hope this helps you choose.

That second one probably doesn't include English and maths so you are not comparing like with like, but both sound above average on the A/A*.

Make sure you are comparing like for like and also get the stats for pure GCSEs ie not including BTEC equivalents.
What are the relevant EBACC stats for the two schools?

96% sounds too high for a genuinely non selective school!

So, either they are counting BTEC courses in their GCSE total or they are selecting in some way. (agree with nota)

Bottom line though, is go for the school that feels right for your child when you go round it.

63% (incl english and maths) sounds like a good nonselctive but in an academically strong area.

Agree with all that exam results aren't necessarily a guide to how 'good' a school it....but have you had a look at the value added? That, in my opinion, is a much better guide. It basically tells you how much a school manages to improve its students' grades.

If a student enters a school with top grades and then leaves also with top grades, it is not much of a surprise (but will still look good in their exam results), but if a child enters the school with a very low grade yet leaves with an average one, then the school has made a massive improvement. This will not necessarily be reflected in the exam results.

In a comp, anything over 50% is good
in a comp in a nice area aim for over 65%

ebacc in a comp - anything over 30% is excellent

Sounds fine to me. I expect my daughter will be going to a school like that. I also expect she will be within that 63 per cent.

As a teacher, I'd say the contextual value added figures are the best reflection on a school. Basically, all pupils are given a 'predicted' grade based on achievement at KS2 .. minus VA means they didn't achieve it so school did a bad job (although obviously there are mitigating factors!!) , neutral means they achieved what they should so school did fine, positive VA means they did better than expected so the school did something special.

Comparing schools based on A-C is unfair because it depends on their intake - a school whose intake was ... I don't know ... 50% below level 4 will have done bloody well to get 5 A-C out of 50% of them 5 years later! A school who had 80% of their intake at level 4 on intake will have done a shit job if only 70% end up with 5 A*-C!

Indeed
but as DH goes to lots and lots of schools - and we are into checking out their stats so we know what he's in for - the numbers I quoted give a fair ballpark.

Dear All,

Many thanks for your interesting replies. I will indeed go back and check the details again. Confess don't know much about the English Bacc, so will definitely look into that.

It's all so stressful choosing the right school for your child - no wonder I'm on the wine by 6 0'clock !!

Don't look at the school stats, look at what is right for YOUR child. If your child will get GCSEs at good grades at either school then have a look at the non academic side - some schools have sports teams but no art club, others are the other way round.

What are the restrictions on GCSEs when it comes to options?

bloomfield I think that you have left out some important information. In earlier posts you said that you were overseas and looking at State Boarding Schools. Would the 'non selective comprehensive schools' you are referring to be SBS by any chance?
The stats you quoted are pretty darned good - the national average for getting 5 GCSEs is about 60% and getting A/A* is 23% - but SBS usually do better than national average because they are selective. Ask yourself how 'comprehensive' the intake is when it is restricted to those that can afford boarding fees!
I thought that you had decided to go for Hockerill?

Oshgosh. Yes, we are indeed overseas at the moment, and both schools are state boarding schools as mentioned in previous posts. They are both non-selective (apart from being interviewed for a boarding need). We haven't made a firm decision yet as we are just waiting to see if we are also offered a school in our home town, by the local authority, on 1st March. We will then choose one, depending on where we're likely to be, given hubby's job going forward.

I just wanted to obtain views on the school league tables printed very recently in the papers as I find it interesting how they can vary so much, when both are supposedly comprehensive.

Thanks for your response.

Hockerill isn't selective but its intake is above average.

bloomfield have a look at this www.education.gov.uk/schools/performance/?pid=pt2011_&cre=holdingpagelink
Most information is given on a school-wide basis but this gives you the split of how the school serves its low/middle/high achievers which is much more pertinent. You will note that Hockerill has so few low achievers that they are marked SUPP i.e. they have been left out of the statistics.