No lockers and no lunch rooms - is this the norm?

[pickledsiblings]

A school that I am familiar with appears to have no seating arrangements for students who choose to have packed lunches. Some of the Y11 girls have resorted to eating theirs in the loos .

The same school also does not have any lockers or cloakrooms for students. I was just wondering if this is the norm and would be greatful for any replies before I sit down and draft a letter to the Governors.

It is a State Comprehensive Senior School with around 1200 students.

No, not the South Coast but inland in a lovely market town .

Whilst I hope there are not that many schools with such poor lunchtime facilities I am sure you cannot spot the OPs school from her posts.

DD's state comprehensive - 1,800+ pupils, locker for EVERYONE in the 'locker pod'. Used to be a paved square/atrium between buildings, but locker pod was fitted just before DD started, before then there were only lockers for the upper school. (DD now in Y9). They have 50 minutes for lunch, and separate halls for lunches for different year groups. Y7 have a small-ish hall, Y8 and Y9 share the large hall, Y10 have a different small hall, and Y11 have their own tiddly hall AND common room. (No 6th form).

I'll clarify - Y7 hall is a sports hall next to the main hall that Y8 and Y9 share. Y10 are in the drama hall, and the Y11 hall and common room are the other side of the main hall that Y8 and Y9 share.

Didn't think this was that unusual? They have cleaners go in while the dc are in afternoon registration to clean the halls, plus lunch monitors that help on a rota basis, and anyone caught leaving rubbish around gets put on 'hall litter duty' the next day.

Works really well...

HuntyCat - what happens during exam season? Surely those spaces are needed?

Erm - I'll ask DD! I know that for a little while after Easter, they ate in their form rooms - maybe that was when the older dc were taking exams?

pickledsiblings and talkingpeace I work at an independent school with a very large site no 2 way radios all have mobile phones.

Just asked DS about the walky talkies at his school - he isn't sure about lunch staff but the LS staff and the bus monitors have them. However there is very, very limited mobile reception, DCS have difficulty contacting me during the day if they need to.

Extraordinary isn't it how it's compulsory for them to teach PSHE - Personal, Social and Health Education but can't provide a civilised space in which they can eat.

I went to a small girls grammar school in the 70's. We didn't have a dedicated dining room or on-site catering - the food was brought in. There were two sittings for lunch and we kept them for the next seven years. Tables were allocated in the first year (10 girls to each) and as 6th formers left, new girl(s) joined. School lunchers and packed lunchers sat together at the tables. The most senior lunchers collected the hot food and the most junior cleared the tables. Grace was said before eating by either the head or deputy who rotated sittings, always, and the teaching staff had lunch on the "stage".

It was polite, well mannered, well organised and looking back fundemantally excellent and supported x year relationships. I got to know, as a friend, every girl I shared that table with. It taught more about PSHE issues than any formal lesson could begin to do. It was a state school.

Married, sounds great - a bit like my experience. At some Independent schools, staff sit at the tables with the students and chat to them. The whole thing is very civilised, much more so it seems than a lot of the State school alternatives expressed on this thread.

I am sure there doesn't have to be such a distinction, just as I am sure that it really does make a difference to the psyche of the young people involved (whether they or their parents realise it or not).

Pickled - one of the problems with your dream of having civilised lunches in state schools (and I do know what you're talking about- I went to a comp but was involved with music/drama at a public school in the same town so ate in their dining room a number of times) is that state school days tend to be shorter than independent school days and therefore lunches tend to be too. As a teacher, lunchtime is usually spent sorting stuff out for afternoon lessons, catching up with admin, sometimes seeing students or, very occasionally, sitting having lunch with colleagues and catching up. If I was compelled to have lunch in the dining room with students every day, something else would have to give- that time would have to come from somewhere else. Also, teachers in state schools cannot be compelled to do things at lunchtimes- the battle to be allowed a lunchtime was fought and won in the 80s.

Eviltwins dare I say that no employee should expect a shorter day and a longer lunch hour. Our teachers spent 20 minutes on that stage eating at the same time as us and the same food. Lunch was one hour, school was 8.45 - 3.45 - there were no clubs or after school activities in those days. Surely if such arrangements take away the need for PSHE and support a more valued and more civilised school community to develop it would be worth giving those 20 minutes to the young people.

at the suggestion that a civilised lunch would remove the need for PSHE in the curriculum.

But learnt more about right and wrong and morals and taking care of ourselves and living well from simple day to day interactions with our teachers - and RE lessons - that could have been learnt in a formal lesson about it. I will never forget when we were 15 our headmistress telling us about her missionary days in China and the girl who didn't put her rags on the line that month (eew I know - but we sat up and listened didn't think she knew it could be done between two people) and how said it had been and how the girl had struggled and lost all the opportunities that were open to her. I wasn't suggested it was just a lunch but high standards and expectations threaded into the ethos of a school does more than delivering a lesson the teacher might not agree with.

My lasting memory of school is that the teachers cared about us and supported the expectations of our parents - the highest expecations. I just don't feel that happens now.

DS attends a tiny indie secondary & he does have a locker. But I'm not sure if he ever uses it. Maybe for PE kit.

Local HS (other DC will attend, I think about 1000 pupils) has decent dining space but no lockers except for some yr11s. Since this (no lockers) seems to be norm in British secondaries, it's one of the many things that I fell horrified about in the English secondary system.

I'm sad that doesn't happen for you MarriedInWhite - it certainly is the case at my dcs schools (3 dcs, 3 diff schools).

Students who have resorted to eating their lunch in the toilets most definitely do not feel cared for or respected.

Well, I don't know anyone who is sad enough to eat their lunch in the toilets. I was responding to MiW's wild and extremely offensive {to school staff} generalisation that school staff don't care "these days".

Teenagers are odd creatures. Believe it or not, some will choose not to wear coats, or to eat their lunch in the loo, or to hitch their skirts up so their knickers are in show, or will refer to all their mates as "dickhead". IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY FEEL NEGLECTED BY THEIR TEACHERS, IT MEANS THEY'RE TEENAGERS. pickled, from what I can gather, you neither have teenage DCs or work with them, so stop making yourself out to be an expert. FFS- if all a school has wrong with it is that some of the kids eat their lunch in weird places, it's doing pretty well.

I recently attended a lecture on the teenage brain with a number of other education professionals and none of the things that you mention in your last post EvilTwins were even discussed in the context of teenagers being odd creatures .

When a student tells you that they feel neglected by their School (not individual teachers but the School as a whole), I think it is safe to say that they do. The students that you teacher obviously feel respected but I can assure you that I have met many recently who don't and I'm simply trying to get to the bottom of why that is.

It is just ridiculous to suggest that only in independent schools do staff sit with students and chat to them over lunch . In most of the schools I have taught in this is the case. Of course it does depend on the school having funds and space for a large dining hall, not all state schools have that .

However it is difficult for staff to fit in the time especially in a time when we are "expected" to do duties, run clubs and classes at a lunch time.

We have some students that choose to eat in the toilets, despite having a huge rather luxurious dining room that compares with anything an independent could offer. We also have other designated eating areas , but some choose to eat in the loo . I agree it is madness but some choose to do it.

I'm sure the lecture didn't refer to teens as odd creatures but presumably did mention the fact that they often behave without what we, as adults would see as logic or reason. Why queue in the dining room when you can eat your sandwich in the loo whenever you want? It's a big leap from "no lockers" to "no one values or respects the students"

Students feeling as if no one values or respects them is not the same as 'no one values or respects the students'. I am just trying to work out why the students feel the way they do - any ideas?