No lockers and no lunch rooms - is this the norm?

[pickledsiblings]

A school that I am familiar with appears to have no seating arrangements for students who choose to have packed lunches. Some of the Y11 girls have resorted to eating theirs in the loos .

The same school also does not have any lockers or cloakrooms for students. I was just wondering if this is the norm and would be greatful for any replies before I sit down and draft a letter to the Governors.

It is a State Comprehensive Senior School with around 1200 students.

At dd1's school they have a two week timetable with 5 periods a day, so 50 lessons per fortnight. Some subjects are on a rota system so you switch every 6 weeks between music / art / drama and food tech / graphics / resistant materials / maybe something else!

I'm a bit as to how 15 sessions a week allows for core subjects (maths, english, science) to have more timetable time than not such important things like ICT and PSCHE (or whatever the letters are!).

Anyway, at dd1's school there are lockers for everyone (combination so no keys to lose) and plenty of indoor seating areas. The old cloakrooms have been converted to social areas, with those metal benches you see at railway stations. So lots of indoor places to sit and chat and eat :)

I'm not surprised you're not happy if there's not enough room for them to sit and eat. They must have real problems with concentration and toilet breaks must be tricky for staff as well as students. In the schools I've worked in there are very few staff toilets , more lesson breaks means more chances to go!

School lunch length between the sectors is important.

In large comps, it is really common to just have a half-hour lunch break, often with staggered classes to fit everyone in. It means the children have less time to be idle (and misbehave).

In independent schools, it is not unusual to have a 1 - 1.5 hour lunch break, which means they can fit the whole school into a relatively small dining room.

Idleness isn't the main reason for long lunchbreaks in the independent sector, but it is a way of extending the school day to 4.30/5/6pm.

I think most independent school parents would be horrified if their child was stressed out by carrying their possession around and having a prison-style lunch. Part of what they are paying for is for their child to have a comfortable and civilised school experience. That can often mean a three-course lunch, with no time pressure to scoff it down.

If the dining area is small then obviously the tables are needed for those with plates and cutlery. I'm surprised though that there isn't a room that could be used for packed lunchers during the colder months.

The school could be discouraging packed lunches so that they have more uptake of school lunches. This would make it easier to negotiate the contract with their caterers.

I know that at my children's schools that it is essential to have 100% uptake, as a choice would mean that no caterer would be interested in providing a healthy and cost-effective lunch.

senua, I was also wistfully remembering the same flip top desks last night

bumpy, it is also a rolling two week timetable so 'everything' effectively gets fitted in over 30 x 100 minute sessions.

The whole dining/lockers issue is not anything I have ever come across on the numerous Private/State School debates on MN. I wonder how many parents are blissfully unaware of the less than satisfactory provision in many schools?

david the whole school here have teh same lunch break 40 mins for 1200 students and it is chaos .I think if every chiold ahd hot food well be mayhem .The hall only holds maxium of 200

At Ds1's school there used to be lockers but they took them out to save room. This is probably why nobody wears a coat even this week.

The lunchtime is one hour so not rushed but a long time to be standing around with all your possessions. Same here wrt the chaos that would ensue if all had school dinners.

Well my DCs school (1,500 state comprehensive) has lockers available, year group common rooms, dining room and pantries.

No cloakrooms - but none of them wear coats anyway, whatever the weather! This is partly because of the amount of children on buses - there isn't really time to go back to a locker before getting on the buses, especially children like my DCs who often have to collect a musical instrument as well.

The dining room is the only place you can't eat your own food. Packed lunches can be eaten in the common rooms or outside. Or at your lunchtime activity.

The pantries serve hot food (pizza, toasties, hot posta bowls) and cold food (sandwiches, pasta, salad) and several of these around school. They are open morning break as well.

Sixth formers are the only ones allowed out.

Human, are the students dissatisfied with this arrangement?

Do they have a school council where they could express their views?

I know that things are difficult if there are limited dining facilities in a school, but they may be able to have double or even triple sittings with timetable changes. My friend's DC's school has three 30-minute sittings, and if the child is not having lunch, they are in lessons.

I can't seen why any school couldn't set aside some designated classrooms for packed lunches. Anything is better than eating in the cloakroom :boak:

David I suspect that most state school parents would be horrified at children having prison style lunch and students having to carry around all their belongings all day.

If they are very horrified, and they have the means, they would get their kids out.

Raspberry, that sounds like decent provision apart from the not wearing coats/buses issue. Most of the students at this school wear coats and have to be constantly reminded to remove them.

I really wish DS didn't have to carry stuff around all day. School bag, PE (and footy kit) and when there's cookery it must get really interesting.

Or they could group together to try and make a change . I teach in a state school which extended its lunch, dining facilities and improved meals because that is what our parents demand and it was the right thing to do.

I have the means to get my own children out their schools, the food was also dire and again we are working with the school and LEA to make changes.

Molly you are absolutely right but I am not sure that parents know how awful it is. Can you imagine if your DC chose to eat in the loos so that they could at least sit down ?

I am not saying it is the case here but pupils have always eaten in the loo. We have fantastic dining facilities and still some students eat in the loo.

The parents need to be made awarekf how awful it is. At the start of my career I worked in a school that got rid of its dining room and it had a huge affect on pupil behaviour in the afternoon. Parents went to governors , press and lea and changes were made.

Also, at lunchtimes the school is patrolled by staff on walkie talkies, is this the norm too?

How are these students meant to feel valued .

One of the secondaries nearish me (not catchment, sadly) has been rated Outstanding for several years. This has meant they have doubled their size without doubling their facilities. Classrooms have been divided into two, with one class traipsing through another to get to their smaller space. It also means that the dining facilities are for the old numbers. The only parts of the school that are reasonable for the size are the ones that look good on the prospectus - ICT rooms, sports hall, sixth form center.

It is really quite an unpleasant environment for the pupils, but I suppose new Year 7s don't know what to expect, then it all becomes 'normal' to them.

Instead of a 'take your daughter to work' day, it might be more telling to have a 'take your mum to school' day.

Molly, how does one make sure that parents are made aware of the situation?

Why are they allowed to eat in the toilets. At my DD's school, they are only allowed to go to the toilets to do their business, and the adjacent cloakroom to change for PE. Otherwise it is 'out of bounds'.

Don't they have staff doing a patrol duty?

I would love that David, to go in and have a good poke round. I have felt so detached from it all since DS1 started High School.

Why do walkie-talkies make students feel undervalued? It's an instant means of communication in a large building.

The step up from junior to senior school is very hard on parents, sparkling :)

One minute you are micromanaging, and the next you are persona non grata.