No lockers and no lunch rooms - is this the norm?

[pickledsiblings]

A school that I am familiar with appears to have no seating arrangements for students who choose to have packed lunches. Some of the Y11 girls have resorted to eating theirs in the loos .

The same school also does not have any lockers or cloakrooms for students. I was just wondering if this is the norm and would be greatful for any replies before I sit down and draft a letter to the Governors.

It is a State Comprehensive Senior School with around 1200 students.

It should be possible to cavas the students for support via VLE or school council, but the barrier is likely to be space. If there are 1200 students and each locker is 45cm wide, you'll need to find 180m of windowless wall space if you get the 1/3rd height lockers or 270m of wall space if you get the 1/2 height lockers that allow for an internal shelf.

Molly, I am not in the position to establish a PTA since I am not a P.

I do however know that Parents' Evenings are incredibly civilised events that bear no resemblance whatsoever to the chaotic lunchtime arrangements of the students.

I am not really in the position to do much which is why I thought of writing to the Chair of Governors.

regarding the walkie talkies - school buildings are notorious for not being 'free flowing' with years and years of extensions etc. Walkie Talkies are an instant way of passing on information e.g. the next year group can go in for lunch; has everyone in year 8 eaten so we can send the next group in?

The problem with mobile phones are signals - you can not always rely on them being good enough

in relation to the lockers; the first school I worked in there were no lockers as there was not enough room. The 2nd school had about 20 lockers for 800 students....the school I currently work in have a lot more lockers available to rent but there is no where else to put any to allow all students to have access

Some of the classrooms in DS's school are quite small. I can't imagine what they are like with 30 students with at least 2 bags each. No wonder they don't want to wear coats.

Cricketballs, that type of use of walkie takies sounds great but at this school it is simply a free for all with no pacing of who eats when. Instead staff parole the dining rooms moving along anyone who hasn't bought their food on the premises. They also make sure that students stay away from out of bounds areas.

OP, I can't figure out why you care. If you are not a parent at this school, and you don't work at this school, then it is highly probable that you do not know the full story. As for writing to the governers (or, as another poster has hinted, Ofsted), I strongly suspect that they have other things more pressing to deal with that where kids choose to eat their lunch (and believe me, some will choose to eat in the toilets, no matter what other provisions there are)

I teach in a relatively small state secondary. We have common rooms and a large-ish canteen, and students are allowed to eat their packed lunches in the canteens if they wish to, though not in common rooms (as these are also classrooms) Many choose not to - I am always surprised at how many students I see eating baguettes or sandwiches, bought from the canteen, in stairwells or sitting on the floor in the corridor. We have a lovely outdoor seating area, and some eat there (even in this weather)

We do have lockers, but not all students choose to use them. Many don't bother with coats, even in the cold weather we're currently having (not cool, apparently - a hoodie is apparently perfectly fine even in the snow)

We have staff who patrol with walkie talkies, and also CCTV. CCTV is useful if there is trouble at lunchtime, or if children claim that something has been stolen, or if toilets get vandalised or whatever. Walkie talkies are useful if there is a fight, and the member of staff on patrol needs to get assistance straight away. Teachers don't tend to carry their mobiles around with them. Walkie talkies are quicker. I don't see what the objection is - claiming that CCTV and walkie talkies make schools like prisons is just bizarre.

This is my catchment school, that is why I care. I have spoken to students who are disheartened by the lack of basic provision, that is why I care.

Students eating in stairwells etc simply doen't happen at Independent Schools as far as I am aware and since the Head of this school is attempting to run it like an Independent School I think it should be pointed out to him (and those parents that he has duped) that this is an area for improvement.

I think he probably has more important things to worry about.

You seem to think that state schools should aspire to be like independent schools. Why?

Are you likely to have children at this school in the future?

It is not me that thinks State Schools should be like Independents but the Head who has made this assertion about his school. I could very well have DC at this school in the future.

dd goes to a large comp. There are lockers - bot not for all, so you have to put your name down and then you get it for the whole time you are there. dd puts her pe kit, dt/art stuff in there but not her coat as time can be a bit tight for getting the bus after so that gets stuffed in her bag.

packed lunches eat in the hall, unless they have a club, then they can take it with them. dd tried a hot meal in the canteen for the first time recently and really enjoyed it (primary school ones were dreadful)

I think she is fortunate, at another local school there is such lack of space that by the time the last kids have finished queueing it is time to go back to class. I think that is dreadful.

In view of what you've said, I think that the best way forward would be to encourage the girls that have spoken to you to ask for the problems to be debated at the next school council meeting. That's the purpose of School Councils.

Banter, thanks for your advice but I am unlikely to be speaking to those girls again as I am no longer an 'insider'. Do you not think a letter to the Head with the Chair of Governors copied in would be of any use?

I don't think there is anything wrong is state schools wanting to take from the best of independent schools. I am sure independent schools could also learn from state schools.

I would not like to walk around a school on duty with a walkie talkie. At most schools there is an office or a room with a phone not that far away. We sometimes use them for big outdoor events but not when walking around the school. The only school I have ever worked in that needed a Walkie talkie was one that was completely out of control.

OP, I genuinely think that the school will have other more pressing things to worry about. If none of the students or parents of children at the school are making a fuss, then why on earth are you? What you see as an issue may not be seen as an issue by others.

I am finding the whole walkie talkie argument rather . My school is small but quite spread out. We use the walkie talkies to communicate with reception. If a student injured themselves, say, I can call for a first aider ASAP without having to go and find a room with a phone then hope that the line isn't busy. Also, we have a callout system during the day in case teachers need assistance or for a child to be taken out. The person on callout duty has a walkie talkie so that they can be contacted and directed to wherever they need to be. Sensible, not prison-like.

I have worked in a school with no dining room and it was an issue and I was really pleased when staff and parents rallied together to do something about it . Because the students could not sit down and eat a proper meal they bolted down rubbish often with fizzy drinks from machines which we also got rid of. They were often wild by the afternoon and this impacted on achievement and the fact that the school became an unpleasant place to learn or work. It sends a message about how the school feels about it's students and staff.

I can see that if a school is very spread out that Walkie talkies might be needed if you were on duty outside. That is different from patrolling corridors with a Walkie talkie.

Ours has no lockers and uses walkie talkies because it consists of 14 different buildings - there would be way to much toing and froing for lockers and walkie talkies are a practical way to call for first aid from one building, or outside it, to another. Packed lunches are generally eaten outside at picnic tables under shelters - or if very cold, in classrooms.

Molly this school also has difficult afternoon sessions (and drinks machines). Did the situation improve for your school when things changed?

Yes it did , the school was becoming a war zone and if course it took more than sorting out food arrangements but that was part of it. We got rid of all machines selling fizzy drinks, all machines selling chocolates and sweets and stopped feeding kids sausage rolls from a hatch every day for their lunch which they wandered around eating. We also lengthened the lunch hour from 35 minutes to an hour so everyone had a chance to relax at lunch.

You see, I do think this school could benefit from something similar.

There are other problems of staff inconsistently applying the rules eg some staff allow students to listen to mp3 players in lessons, eat in lessons and if they catch them on their phone they simply take it off them and give it back at the end of the lessons.

I do think that most parents would be to know that this is how the school operates quite aside from the lunchtime issues. This school has a very good reputation locally and whilst it does provide great opportunities for a number of its students it is also failing many of them .

I think when you have little children, things that happen in secondaries can seem quite scary. It is hard when your pfb goes up to secondary to start with, as it's so different from primary. However what you find (as your dc become secondary pupils) things that seem uncomfortable or 'odd' to you now, just become normal, and genuinely don't bother the pupils at all.

I have a ds in Yr 11 and a dd in Yr 8, and have looked round 8 secondary schools near here whilst they were in Primary (also have nieces and children of friends in other schools in the City).

No secondary school I have knowledge of has a cloakroom.

A minority have lockers. As it happens, both my dcs schools do have lockers, but, is ds's in particular, it's not in a place that it's very convenient to dip in and out of between lessons, so tends to be used to house muddy smelly PE kit only. Nor is there time inbetween lessons to go back to the lockers to sort books for the next lessons.

Re lunch - I'm not 100% sure in ds's school, but in dd's school, the dining area is quite small and reserved for girls' eating a meal bought there. They have lots of outside space, but are also allowed to eat in the hall if it is too cold/wet outside (no tables set out though - they can fetch themselves a chari or sit on the floor). Again, I think this is pretty normal. It's like most workplaces really - there is usually a staffroom of some sort, but a lot of people choose not to eat there.

Oh, I agree with EvilTwins about the walkie talkies - sensible form of communication, and nothing 'prison like' about it. I really think you would be seen as very very precious if you wrote about that especially as you don't even have children there

I would have thought that most schools would have a warning bell at the end of a break and in this time pupils woud go their lockers before a second bell goes to signify the start of a lesson. So if they had two lessons in the morning they woud get two lessons worth of books or equipment . At the end of break they would swap the stuff from lesson one and two for the thing they need for the lesson(s) before lunch. After lunch a warning bell would go and pupils go to their lockers again and get what they need for the afternoon before lessons go for tutor time or afternoon lessons.

In most workplaces people do not sit on the floor to eat their dinner.

Not planning on writing about the walkie talkies .

Just find it odd that even large Independent schools don't seem to have them. I'm happy to be corrected by the way.

You are right about the students just accepting it though and that is what I find really . Our DC deserve better. There, I've said it!