Could I ask for some advice regarding GCSE options?

[Bomper]

My ds has to choose his GCSE options this month. He has been told that although it is not compulsory at his school, it is STRONGLY ADVISED to choose a MFL. Ds hates languages and doesn't want to pick one but we have been told that a lot of universitys want you to have taken English, Maths, Science a Humanities subject and a MFL and some only take you if you have.

Is this always the case? I am torn as I want him to take a wide spread of subjects but I also think if he doesn't enjoy it and/or struggles then it is a wasted choice. What to do?!

What does he intend to study and a which uni? You can look at the entry criteria on line.

I would say if he is aiming for anything at a Russell Group uni (the ones that consider themselves "the best" I'm not going to get into a debate as to whether they are and what subjects LOL) then I would think he's shoot himself in the foot by not having a MFL.

"lower tier" unis will be less bothered and of course it may be subject dependent- if you want to take a very practical design/tech/IT course maybe it's of no matter but if you wan tto do english for example to not at least have some idea of other languages might be a problem.

My lot aren't "allowed" by school not to do a MFL and for a school with a selective academic intake I'm sure that is correct.

Ds does go to a selective school, but as it has an Engineering specialism and it is compulsory to take a D&T subject they cannot make MFL compulsory too. To be honest we have not put any thought into which uni he is aiming for but I very much doubt it will be one of the top ones. He is interested in engineering, physics and Maths. He is definitely more technically minded than creative!!

Yep, that's what the Headmaster said. He also said that it is one of the lastest Education Ministers ideas and that as things change to frequently, it may not mean anything by the time ds is actually looking for a uni place.

DS1 didn't choose a language.

Agree with ruby.

DS chose music, media, IT and then he was going to do history, but at the last minute changed his mind and plumped for double science. He would not have been happy doing a language (we did discuss it with him) but at the end of the day he needs to enjoy his subjects.

If he's likely to get straight As at GCSE make him do an MFL. If not don't worry as he won't be looking at RG universities anyway.

DS found his choices of uni were limited by the fact that he didn't have a pass in a MFL - in the end it didn't bother him, but it's possible that more unis will start having this requirement, as a way of picking between candidates. So, I'd say better to do it than not, and tough if he doesn't enjoy it, as he's potentially limiting his choices if he doesn't have it and you don't always enjoy everything you need to do!

I agree that these things go in cycles.
Cambridge (and some others ?UCL?) used to insist on a language GCSE but they dropped it fairly recently. They realised that a lot of State schools had stopped offering languages in KS4 so to insist on a GCSE was back-door selection in favour of the Independent sector. However, now that the Govt is encouraging languages again by means of the EBacc, I can see them re-introducing the requirement or, at least, looking more favourably on those that have it. Ditto other RG/1994 universities.

To be pedantic, you don't need a Modern FL for the EBacc. Ancient ones count too!

What would he choose instead? If a solid traditional academic subject in which he is likely to get a good grade (history or geography or another science or something) then I wouldn't worry about it either way. Let him do what he likes and is good at. If he's likely to pick something less traditional then he needs to be aware that some universities will not count it as worth as much as the MFL. But this may not matter, depending on where he might be studying and what subject he might want to do.

Is he likely to do well at it despite not liking it? If he is unlikely to pass well there doesn't seem any point.

If he likely to do well at it I would really encourage him to opt for it. Its only 2 years after all.

My DS would have hated having to choose a D & T option.

He want to take Geography, Engineering (which counts as two GCSEs as it covers Electronics), and ICT, along with Maths, English (Lit and Lang) and triple Science.

bump

Am I right that the concensus in this thread is that the EBac may turn out to be a selection criteria for Russel group unis in a few years?
is a humanity sibject necessary then?

RG universities are not interested in the subjects at GCSE. They are only interested in the grade so go for ones where he will excel. Eng bacc is irrelevant so forget it.

How about German.It's a global economy. Wouldn't have to learn all the kanji for eastern languages. If he's hoping to work in engineering/science.....may be he'll be glad he learnt it.

@ Michaela - your say that RG universities are not interested in the subjects at GCSE. We have heard different through the grapevine: that they are most definitely looking at GCSEs (subjects and grades) in order to differentiate between strong candidates for in-demand subjects.
We are also just looking at GCSE choices right now so I would be very interested in hearing other people's opinions, especially those that disagree with me [me]. Will put this thread on "watch".

Some RG universities very definitely list GCSE subjects and grades in their course requirements. Others will almost certainly use these kinds of distinctions to pick between candidates, even if they don't list them as a starting position.

e.g Music (BMus) at Edinburgh - "GCE A Levels: BBB including Music. GCSEs: English at Grade C, a language other than English at Grade C, and Mathematics or an approved science at Grade C"

I know he is not thinking about music, but the principle is the same, and this is the subject I've recently had to find out about!

You really need to look at the universities and courses that he might be interested in to see what they ask for - look at ones which might be achievable on a really good set of results, plus a more likely set of results, and try to point him towards choices which won't limit his options.

Also make sure you check the university general entrance requirements as well as the course specific ones - sometimes there is more in there which you need to be aware of.

There is lots of information about grades and subject requirements for universities on the UCAS website. Also worth a browse is the Student Room website.

e.g Music (BMus) at Edinburgh - "GCE A Levels: BBB including Music. GCSEs: English at Grade C, a language other than English at Grade C, and Mathematics or an approved science at Grade C"

These published grades are very much lower than students will be offering. Having only C grades in core subjects at GCSE means you are not likely to be getting an offer from a RG university due to the quality of the opposition (however a brilliant musician might get away with not having a high maths score).

Yes, those are the bare minimum to even be considered, nothing like what you need to actually get offered a place. But if you had, say, 9As and a C in French at GCSE then you have a reasonable chance, whereas 9As and a failed French, or no MFL taken, puts you out of the running before you even start. And I'm guessing it's those sorts of scenarios which are making the school "strongly advise" the pupils to do a MFL, even if it's not their strong point, to avoid putting yourself out of the competition no matter how well you do at other things.

If he's capable / likely to get a good grade in a MFL, then he'd be daft not to, tbh. I'm surprised he's only got 10, if he's at a selective school, tbh, these days too - surely he can do the lang without dropping any of what he's doing ?
ds's set (top 2 sets - he isn't at a selective school) do the triple science in the same amount of lesson time as the third set do their double science - I'd have thought in a selective school the triple science won't take up a lot of extra lessons, similalrly things like Eng Lang aren't 'work heavy' if you've been working with other able pupils through secondary school.

My DCs Comp requires all students to do a MFL (with very, very few exceptions). My DS is doing an NVQ as he was seen as doing too badly to do GCSE.
UCL (and possibly Imperial) are bringing in a language requirement, if you don't have it you will have to study a language as part of your degree.