South London schools and admissions.

[ChocolatEtVin]

We currently live on the Southwark/Lewisham boarder and are looking at secondary schools for our DTs for 2013 entry. As we have one DS and one DD we primarily want to look at mixed schools but sadly it seems the girls only schools do a lot better academically - would I be holding either of them back by discounting single sex schools? Also could anyone explain the banding system that most schools allocate places by? And if we live in Lewisham can we apply for Southwark schools? Finally does anyone know how oversubscribed the following schools are and are they any good?

Haberdashers' Aske's Hatcham College
The St Thomas the Apostle College
Harris Girls' Academy
Prendergast School (would we get in living just over a mile away?)
City of London Academy (nearly two miles away?)

One last question - admissions for Prendergast say that they allocate 10% of places on musical ability, how good do you have to be to get in based on this?

Not much help I'm afraid but if Prendagast School is a state school they will be testing musical aptitude not musical ability. If your dd has an ear for music she has as much chance as anyone else.

Oh and good luck!

hocus, what's the difference between music aptitude and musical ability?

Ability is a proven record of grades achieved in an instrument or singing whereas aptitude is the potential to do well in the subject without that record. Always sit the test because it provides another way in to your preferred school(s).

Haberdashers is the only one I know about as we live close, from
what I have heard it is one of the most oversubscribed state schools in London, they measure the catchment area from the main office at the top of telegraph hill not from the part of the school at bottom of Jerningham Rd and I have heard that children living opp the Jerningham Rd bit have not got places. The secondary school has recently taken over a primary school and the kids from there get guaranteed places (from what I've read - I'm just looking at primary for Ds) so that will significantly reduce the number of places available to anyone else. The catchment area is v small anyway

How small is very small? We are roughly 0.3 miles - would that be close enough?

I don't know - a friend's dd on one of the roads by the park (although the new cross end) didn't get in, as I said some on Jerningham haven't got in, I know a few kids from our street (prob about same distance as you) have got in but that was before the takeover of the primary school and I don't know what effect that will have had.

The good schools guide online shows catchment areas - you have to pay for a month's subscription to view though - I did it when I started looking at primary schools

Also any opinions on Harris Academy at Peckham? The Ofsted is very promising but do you think it's a good indication of the improvements the school has made?

Famillies from your area also apply to Kingsdale, which admits on a lottery irrespective of location. They also offer music scholarships, and take 15% of their intake on music or sports scholarships.

You can apply to any school in any borough on the CAF form, and will be allocated the school highest in your list of preferences which is able to offer a place.

In many schools they hold banding tests and then make offers according to their admissions criteria within each ability band, reserving an equal number of places for each ability band. Banding tests only affect your admission if there is a much wider catchment for one ability band than another, for example.

Visit all the schools you are interested in as soon as possible (though now the Open days will probably not be until the autumn), and send for all the prospectuses, which will lay out the admissions procedure for that school. Some schools give an indication of the last years catchment in the prospectus or covering letter. Many will say things like 'we had 1,500 applications for 180 places' but of course the majority of all those applicants would also have applied to another 5 schools!

Have a look at this thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/1292068-Kingsdale ,ask prh4bridge about banding .
Not sure about Harris Peckham Academy ,some way to go maybe . Perhaps thats a good thing .
What about www.deptfordgreen.lewisham.sch.uk/ ?
Good luck - hope you're luckier than we were .

You say hope we're luckier that you, gingeroots, would you mind saying what happened?
Deptford looks good, especially with the new building. Will look at that one!

The other thing is that we have three other DS's, is it worth moving boroughs for better schools?

If you think there is realistically no chance of being offered a place in a school that you would be happy for your children to attend from your current address, then it might make sense to relocate.

But you would need to go somewhere that was a dead certainty for a school that you felt sure would be good, suit all your children, have a sibling policy, not decline over the next 8-10 years (all schools can go up as well as down) and to have done so in time to submit your new council tax bill be the deadline of October 2012.

Which schools do you have a strong chance of getting into from your home? What are other parents at your primary doing?

The council website has a tool for finding out how far you are from any Lewisham school; the school info will tell you how far it has taken any child within any of the Lewisham bandings in the past year. It will also explain the Lewisham banding system (very simply: kids do tests in Y5 which allocate them into different ability bands, and Lewisham schools - and the majority of other schools - which do not operate other entrance criteria - will aim to take an equal number of students within each band in order to get a genuinely comprehensive intake.

Can I suggest you go and look at schools, not just go on rumour and reputation? You have, for instance, not listed Sydenham Girls (the state one not the private one), which is definitely worth checking out.

I've not listed any schools more than two miles away as I doubt we would get in. I'll look on the Lewisham website, thanks.

Also if we go for the girls/boys only schools we would hope to get into Prendergast.

0.3 miles from Aske's - if that's in the SE4 direction you might be in with a chance for Prendergast Hilly Fields. If it's in the other direction I doubt you have much of a chance unless you get a music place.

I think you should ring Lewisham Admissions and ask for their advice.

I also agree that there is no substitute for going to look at schools. It's years now since we were in your position and we visited 12 schools in total when my son was coming up to secondary transfer (four of them private, admittedly). That's a lot and we did it by taking a few days of annual leave and taking him out of school to go with us. However, it really helped to get a feel for what each school was like. Personally I prefer to visit during the school day where that was possible, as all the pupils are there, rather than for the more stage-managed open evenings or open days held on Saturdays. Parents we compared notes with had come away with a better impression of one school than we did, as they had not had the happy experience of pupils higher up the stairwell throwing down an empty water bottle which hit one of our party on the head. They also didn't see the year 9 German class where the teacher appeared to be talking to herself while the pupils talked amongst themselves. [I won't name that school as it is one of many Lewisham schools that have changed enormously over the last few years and I have hopes that this will have made a big difference for the better.]

Our local comp has a catchment of between just under half a mile and just under a mile (depending on band).

Does you primary list where pupils from last year went?

You do need to visit all the schools you are interested in.

If you live 0.3 km from Aske's (main building) you are likely but not guaranteed to get in, as distances vary between bands due to no of music scholars and siblings in each band. It is a mixed school but all lessons are single sex until 16, it got 80% 5 GCSEs incl Eng and Maths this year. Deptford Green is another school to look at in the New Cross area, it's catchment is much larger than Aske's, it seems to be getting more popular . Harris Girls, East Dulwich is much improved, 66% got 5 GCSEs including Eng and Maths, the same as Kingsdale (entry by lottery) and Charter. The boy's school is given good reviews by my friends with sons there. You may be in catchment for Prendergast or Sydenham Hill.

I live in North Southwark and quite a few parents move out to the burbs and Kent, Surrey if they can in Yr 5.

The rest are just left to the lottery and scrum that exists for secondary school places in S London.

We will find out in about eight weeks if ds2 has been lucky. If he hasn't I have absolutely no idea what we will do.

Where are you hoping for your DS to get into, if you don't mind me asking?

Too late for you, Chocolate, but apparently Aske's is planning to open a primary school (in addition to Temple Grove) on its Telegraph Hill site. Children from there will have guaranteed transfer to the senior school, as the Temple Grove children already do.

We're hoping for the London Nautical School or Kingsdale.

Others we have put on the list are Bacons College (his brother goes there), Askes, COLA and Forest Hill Boys - all the schools I put down are heavily oversubscribed.

ChocolatetVin and others living in Southwark or Lewisham,
Haberdashers Aske are currently consulting on changing their admissions policy from 2013. They will use distance from either site rather than from the Pepys road site. Look at HAHC.org.uk

sincitylover - do you mind if I PM you with a question about Bacons College?