Help me choose between Cardinal Vaughan and London Oratory School for year after next

[howth]

That is about it

London Oratory is obviously the better of the two for a variety of reasons like exam results, discipline and overall calibre of students, however you have to be a strict committed Catholic to get into the school and have a fantastic reference from your Priest.

Either school is very good. I attended Cardinal Vaughan myself and a few of my relatives attended London Oratory and I do believe that Cardinal Vaughan is slightly stronger academically. However one thing to note is that Cardinal Vaughan do carry out a banding test whilst London Oratory don't.

I suppose it all comes down to which one suits your child best.

Both carry out a banding test. I agree both are very good schools but it is the Oratory that gets significantly better results measured by the EBACC - the toughest GCSEs; CV seem to be better at playing the league tables though but that comes at a cost in terms of asking people to leave at end of GCSEs and in lower sixth. CV has new head so things might change.

London Oratory don't carry out a banding test as part of their admission procedure.

mumwithtwokids - I know why you say that. It is a view shared by many and is not good for the school - CVMS would say that their banding test is not part of admissions procedure - but your perception is shared by many and might be the reality.

I mean the perception that the CV banding test is part of the admissions proceedure

Thank you for these views

Neighbour's son just excluded from Vaughan school - he only started in September. People say the school breaks the Year 7s down and then builds them up - not sure what they build them up to be but whole process seems rather unpleasant.

Oratory school is a fairly "high" Catholic school in religious terms - traditional in liturgy, academics etc but but soft or spiritual, with a strong pastoral focus in service to the boys/girls. Vaughan school is difficult to be clear about - lots of Daily Telegraph supporters who seem to be a mixed bag: several very right wing young (and not so young) fogies - a la Brideshead - but many of same people also seem to hold simultaneously non-traditional views eg women in leadership of church; critical of Bishops etc. Both very good schools in academic terms. Probably a case of horses for courses in terms of choice.

Is it possible to get into Cardinal Vaughan but not be a catholic but resident very locally? We live about 500 yards from the school and are committed Christians, CofE, and provided the academic and music criteria were fulfilled would there be any chance?
Anyone know of anyone getting in not being a catholic?

Chances of getting in if you're not a Catholic are zero.

Absolutely no chance whatsoever - even if you lived next door.

I think it's shocking that you can't go to your local school just because you aren't the 'right' religion Sailor. I would love to have such a good state school on my doorstep and, if we did, would be very upset for my DCs not to be able to go just because we aren't the 'right' religion (we are commited christians but not Catholic). Is religion a bit part of the school day at Cardinal Vaughan and London Oratory?

Surely it is not shocking - that is how the UK education system has been for decades. Disappointing maybe, annoying probably that there is not a secular state school nearby, but not shocking nor a surprise I would suggest
Religious education is the purpose of all Catholic schools including these two -how can you have a "bit part" Catholic education, practice or life .... now that would be truly shocking.

OTOH, the Catholic girls school a mile or so to the north of Cardinal Vaughan takes all comers. Being a catholic is merely one of the oversubscription criteria and Cardinal Vaughan is considerably oversubscribed.

I meant shocking as in unfair, not that it was a new idea to me!

There's nothing unfair about Catholic schools. Certainly, alot less unfair than people moving house to get into a good school which you seem to support.

portfolio, I don't think I expressed what I meant very well. I don't think that catholic schools themselves are unfair and, if I was able to, would send my DC to a religious school. What I meant was that I think this situation is unfair as the previous poster's DC won't be able to go to their local school despite living so close.
What is wrong with moving to be near good schools by the way, if you saw the thread you will have seen that people support the idea.

Moving house to get into a school is very understandable - it does however have knock on effects on others unable to move, just as Catholic schools have repurcusions on the wider system - neither is unfair IMO though the Catholic schools process is more transparent. We are only discussing this because there are so few schools that people want their children to go to. Good luck.

I'm not sure that the Catholic school system is transparent, I wouldn't be surprised if every year there were a few people playing the system to get into good schools.

I fear you are right what I meant was that the rules were in the public domain =

Mixer wrote on 2/1/12: "Neighbour's son just excluded from Vaughan school - he only started in September. People say the school breaks the Year 7s down and then builds them up - not sure what they build them up to be but whole process seems rather unpleasant." There is certainly no effort to 'break anyone down' in the Vaughan. All the children I know there through to 6th form are extremely happy (my ds is year 2). Concerning Vaughan vs Oratory, my son is very content with Vaughan and, based on hearsay amongst his peer group thinks that Vaughan is a better school to attend than the Oratory.

We looked at both schools - my DS1 is starting secondary school in September 2012, and while originally I was convinced that we would put both schools on the form, we decided against the Vaughan, not because it's not a good school, but because we thought it's not the right school for DS1.
It seems very very competitive and I think if your child is very good at school, it will certainly be a good choice. DS1 is average with a fragile self confidence and I really had the feeling he would sink at the Vaughan.
The Oratory on the other hand seemed really committed to pastoral care, and the good results seem to come as a result of that care.

I thought the Assistant Head at the Vaughan who gave the speech on the open day was horrible, arrogant and obviously playing a game, ie, we are so popular and oversubscribed, why should I try to convince you that we are the best school? With a new Head this might change, and I'm aware that you shouldn't judge a school by the speeches on Open Day alone. But I do think that the attitude of the Assistant Head must filter down somewhere/somehow.

I know boys at both schools and they all seem to report pretty much the same - both schools are strict, but all the boys seem to be proud of their respective school.

Oh, and of course, chances to get into either school are very small - but good luck!

I couldn't agree with you more Viktoria about CV school. We must have been at the same open evening as the speech by the Deputy head was appalling, particularly for a Catholic school. It said to us that discipline in the school was based on a sense of fear and I think that self-same deputy head has now become the head teacher at the school.

Mr Stubbings is indeed now the head, his bark is worse than his bite and the boys are all very fond of him. The performance at open day is a piece of theatre intended to winnow out any families that would have difficulty coping with the schools discipline. The Vaughan and the Oratory are both great schools and a credit to the staff that work in them. My son is at the Vaughan and absolutely loves being there.