Independant and State grammar Seconday education

Original poster

MauAnt · 09/12/2011 09:02

Hi all

My son DD who has a conditional place at Eton in 2013 is going to a feeder prep boarding school in Oxford to complete year 7 and 8. We are by no means rich as we rely on scholarships and bursaries which thankfully he has for about 80% of the fees.

I have five children all who went or are in state primary schools and dd above is the 2nd, my daughter the older one who is 13 is in a state grammar school in Reading and her younger sister is in year 6 aged 10 is sitting exams for the same state grammar school as her sister and for some independent schools in Oxford. As she is academic we are hoping for a bursary/scholarship from the independent sector if she goes to one.

The question I ask myself is whether my other children aged 8 and 4 and the 13 year old in grammar school will feel resentment for not being privately educated as I intend to focus on only the state grammar schools in the future unless there are exceptional circumstances. I had to move my son to an independent school in Year 5 despite scraping 1/3 of the fees as he is very academic, a sportsman and needed that extra challenge. It transformed him from the boy who was bored at school and did not want to go to a very enthusiastic boy and one who eventually passed the initial Eton exam. My year 6 daughter is almost similar, aspires to be a writer has some of her work published in the Young writers books and I worry that in the state sector she will be suppressed. She is getting ready for the ISEB common entrance examinations in January and I am shocked at how little science is taught in state primary schools compared to independent schools which places her at a disadvantage.

I love all my children equally and do not want any of them to feel less favoured, I remind my daughter in Kendrick Reading about that. Just that these two children are different in their own way. Having said that if none of our bursary applications are successful and my daughter passes to Kendrick Reading (I am not taking it for granted) I will gladly jump at it. Also common sense tells me that I need to meet the 20% school fees for my son and not be looking for any additional fee commitments for my daughter. Help this confused lady who is trying to do the right thing but might be getting it all wrong

OP posts:

basildonbond · 09/12/2011 09:21

I can't see how they're not going to feel resentful to be honest - you're being very clear that your ds is 'special' - and it's not a case of your eldest daughter going to state grammar and your son going to an independent equivalent - he's going to Eton!! - even 20% of the fees is going to be what, £6000 minimum?

Now you're saying your year 6 daughter is 'special' too .. because she's had stuff published in a vanity publishing concern ... what happens when your 8 year old and 4 year old show signs of being 'special' too?

Very few people have the kind of income which can support one child at an independent school of any kind, let alone one of the most expensive in the country. Eton is not the only choice for academic, sporty boys - there are plenty in other, cheaper, independents and even more in state schools! You don't have the money to put all five through an equivalent, so really you should be working out how you can use the limited budget you do have to enrich the experience of all your children ... the money you're spending on your son would pay for a lot of sports clubs, tutors, days out etc for your whole family - and don't think your other children won't be able to work that out for themselves ...

Original poster

MauAnt · 09/12/2011 09:53

All of my children are special none are more special than the other. Children are different and have different qualitiies not necessarily better than the others. Do you know what percentage of children from different parts of the world sit and pass the Eton exam? So if your child does and has an enormous opportunity in life, I think it is wrong to simply tell the child you cannot go unless all your siblings have the same opportunity to make it fair!

Good parenting and how reasonable the child/other children are comes into play here. If the other siblings see it as an opportunity their brother has which he merited they would not resent him unless they are growing up to be envious and are not proud of who they are irrespective of where they are or what person A B C has achieved. My brother went to boarding school, went to the first university of his choice whilst I had to stay in the local university close to home to look after my parents who where unwell. My brother and I are very close.

There are no guarantees in life, the Eton educated boy may not necessarily be better off than the rest, the grammar school student may go to Oxbridge. It is how much hard work you put into it that is what produces the results. My children do well because we work hard together, despite holding a full time job, I actively participate in their education in terms of teaching and all of my children get the same degree of help/homework, supervision, play from me and that gave the edge. So they know that if you want something you have to work for it.

OP posts:

AMumInScotland · 09/12/2011 10:27

"The question I ask myself is whether my other children aged 8 and 4 and the 13 year old in grammar school will feel resentment"

and "I love all my children equally and do not want any of them to feel less favoured"

I think the answer is quite obvious - they are very, very likely to feel resentment at the unequal treatment. To send children to different schools because it's what suits them is fine, so long as you are all clear about why those choices have been made. To restrict some of your children because you can't afford to give them what you are choosing to give one sibling is a different matter.

If you are not in a position to give each child the school place that suits them best, then you need to accept that and treat them all equally, which is not what you are currently planning to do.

Your other DC may forgive you this plan, or they may not. But if they don't, please don't decide that it is their fault for not being "reasonable" about it. It would be your fault for treating their needs as having different priorities.

Original poster

MauAnt · 09/12/2011 10:41

In the indie/ grammar school scenario there is no one disadvantaged because they are equally selective academic schools. My daughter loves her school and when asked if she would like to change to independent in sixth form she hates the idea.

She choose her school over an indie school where she got an academic scholarship at the end of year 6. In her case why would she resent her brother who also passed to the local boys grammar school and the indie one and choose the independent one? Doesn't this show children are different and you cannot put them all into one straight jacket because people are different. As they say all fingers are not equal that does not necessarily mean that one finger is better than the rest.

OP posts:

sue52 · 09/12/2011 10:42

If your son gets to go to Eton and your DDs a grammar the girls may well be massively resentful when they fully understand the difference. Just because you did not feel this way towards your brother there is no guarantee the girls will be as understanding. I think you may well be storing up grudges in the future.

sue52 · 09/12/2011 10:45

MauAnt She may well have turned down the private school but could it have matched Eton?

NotMostPeople · 09/12/2011 10:46

DH's eldest brother is still resentful that he went to a state school and DH and the his youngest brother went to independent's. His brother is in his 50's.

Original poster

MauAnt · 09/12/2011 10:47

Isn't it more sensible to address this rather than telling DD to not go in order to avoid a future grudge with the siblings? Especially as the older sibling had a choice and choose her grammar school over an indie one?

OP posts:

Original poster

MauAnt · 09/12/2011 10:52

Is it Eton that is the problem here. If that is the case then all ladies in the UK should resent the men because there is no equivalent girls school to Eton. They might as well resent being born girls? rather than boys.

OP posts:

Hullygully · 09/12/2011 10:55

god knows.

Original poster

MauAnt · 09/12/2011 10:57

Yes God Knows. We live in a world where we envy and resent people for material things, never satisfied with who we are or what we do - the grass is always greener on the other side. If any of your DD's resent each other for not being educated independently when the other sibling was then it is their personality that is the problem rather than their parents decision

OP posts:

Hullygully · 09/12/2011 10:59

Not quite. In the UK being educated privately confers ENORMOUS advantages over state, even selective grammars.

MoreBeta · 09/12/2011 11:03

MauAnt - I know the Oxford private and state school system very well indeed and know exactly which schools in Oxford you are talking about. I also know roughly which schools you are talking about in Reading.

In truth, you are making choice between very good school that in the long run will have no impact on your childrens academic outcome but might have a big impact on how they feel about each other.

Yes Eton is a wonderful school but having known a fair few Etonians and one in particular who quite candidly told me that despite all its many virtues, the vast majority of boys that come out of there just go one to do pretty normal jobs.

If I had the choice, in your position and my children were able to pass the entry exams and get scholarships and if I could afford it I would save the money on Eton boarding and instead use it to send the children to a mix of Magdalen in Oxford and probably Headington Girls in Oxford (Oxford High School is very academic too and a bit cheaper I think). Magdalen is taking girls in the 6th form now and suspect it may well go mixed in the end. I really think you could not do any better and life will be a lot less stressful than having children spread across so many different schools.

AMumInScotland · 09/12/2011 11:10

You haven't actually started this thread to get advice then have you? You are quite sure that your children won't resent the decisions you are making, and that if they do then it is their fault for their attitudes and not your fault for your choices.

So why bother posting?

If what you wanted to say was "My son has got a place at Eton" and "Anyone who feels any resentment about this has a problem with their personality" then you could have just said that upfront and not even hinted that you thought there could be the faintest issue with your plan.

Chandon · 09/12/2011 11:13

They may feel resentful, they may not. They may feel resentful about other things, or they may not. Nobody knows!

As long as YOU have the courage of your convictions, and are sure you are doing the best for all your children (sounds like you are), you will be able to deal with any resentment if and when it occurs.

So follow your motherly instincts.

grovel · 09/12/2011 11:20

MoreBeta, good post (and my DS left Eton two years ago).

Original poster

MauAnt · 09/12/2011 11:22

Thank you Chandon. I am doing the best for all my children

OP posts:

Theas18 · 09/12/2011 11:28

Agre you have clearly made up your mind and your other children will not be allowed to will of course be lovely enough not to resent it in the slightest. Your choice.

I just feel dreadfully sorry for your son in some ways- putting all your eggs into one basket is an poor parenting strategy and put a huge pressure on the child.

(friend has done this and her DD "was " going to Oxford to study mathematics- pathway set by friend since child was quite small and had an aptitude. Totally understand in this case, as her DS has quite severe special needs, and will make a lovely adult but not an academic. Well, she's found it very difficult (and I suspect her DD has too) as Oxford said no thanks after interview).

You chose to have 5 children.....

Original poster

MauAnt · 09/12/2011 11:36

Yes I chose to have 5 children and guess what and to show how life can be my children despite the numbers and the work involved are flourishing over and above 2 children families not only in academics but morals. So I think the reference to the number of children in this thread is a bit inappropriate.

You might as well make sure all your children go to the same university as God forbid if one goes to Oxbridge and the rest do not then favouritism sets in? Where do you draw the line?

OP posts:

nancerama · 09/12/2011 11:37

I can't speak for the sibling aspect, as I'm an only, but I can speak for my experience in independent education.

I went to a selective independent secondary school and hated every minute of it. It was high pressured and incredibly competitive. We were taught to pass exams, and nothing much else.

Despite my unhappiness, it took 3 years to persuade my parents to let me leave and go to a state comprehensive, where I thrived.

I do feel that my mother didn't necessarily have my best interests at heart when selecting my first secondary school - she got so carried away with the fact that I'd won a place somewhere so competitive that she didn't stop to think if that place was right for me.

OP - whatever choices you make for your kids, make sure you make the right choices for them. Etonian may suit your DS very well, or he may actually grow to resent his siblings and their "normal" lives.

Original poster

MauAnt · 09/12/2011 11:42

Nancerema. Good point. But the point is that what works for one person may not for the other. He may very well hate Eton on the other hand he may like it. He may hate me if I move him back to a state school which I moved him out of after year 4 because he was simply bored silly. We do not know if some of the decisions we make in life are right or wrong but cannot always tiptoe and not attempt to go for it. I think only God knows.

OP posts:

MoreBeta · 09/12/2011 11:52

Our two DSs could be at Eton if we chose to send them. We looked at sending them to a well known Eton feeder school and it really was tempting. DW was/is still keen on the idea. We have several friends who have children at Eton or will be going to Eton. For them, it is pretty much a matter of it being a family tradition rather than an educational choice.

However, I really felt that actually it would not have suited DS1. Although he is very academic and quite sporty. He is quiet shy and not very good at pushing himself forward. I have heard that at Eton you have to be able to 'network' in order to make the most of it. Also, I do worry a bit that some of the children at Eton come from a lifestyle which is far beyond our means (comfortable but far from being oligarchs) and I do wonder if that really is something I want to have either of our children exposed to and have to come to terms with at school.

Would you say that was true grovel or is that off the mark?

In the end, you have to make a chloice about what is best for your children. I went to private baording school and my sisters the local comprehensive. I am unsure if it means they resent me but we lost a vital common experience and connection during childhood and we dont have much in common with each other.

We send our DSs to a very good private day school and I feel it gives them all the opportunities they need to maximise whatever talent they have and attain the very top of business, academic, political or sporting life if they have the drive but not bothered if they don't. Its up to them. They will have a happy school life with peers that are form similar backgrounds.

Original poster

MauAnt · 09/12/2011 12:20

I don't agree with having to be from similar backgrounds. I think a child who thrives or learns how to thrive/mix with others from various healthy backgrounds (obviously not gangsters or druggies) is on the right footage in life where you meet work with, form friendships with or marry people from completely different backgrounds than you

OP posts:

sue52 · 09/12/2011 12:27

You seem to have made up your mind. I'm not sure why you are bothering to ask as you seem so defensive.