Independant and State grammar Seconday education

[MauAnt]

Hi all

My son DD who has a conditional place at Eton in 2013 is going to a feeder prep boarding school in Oxford to complete year 7 and 8. We are by no means rich as we rely on scholarships and bursaries which thankfully he has for about 80% of the fees.

I have five children all who went or are in state primary schools and dd above is the 2nd, my daughter the older one who is 13 is in a state grammar school in Reading and her younger sister is in year 6 aged 10 is sitting exams for the same state grammar school as her sister and for some independent schools in Oxford. As she is academic we are hoping for a bursary/scholarship from the independent sector if she goes to one.

The question I ask myself is whether my other children aged 8 and 4 and the 13 year old in grammar school will feel resentment for not being privately educated as I intend to focus on only the state grammar schools in the future unless there are exceptional circumstances. I had to move my son to an independent school in Year 5 despite scraping 1/3 of the fees as he is very academic, a sportsman and needed that extra challenge. It transformed him from the boy who was bored at school and did not want to go to a very enthusiastic boy and one who eventually passed the initial Eton exam. My year 6 daughter is almost similar, aspires to be a writer has some of her work published in the Young writers books and I worry that in the state sector she will be suppressed. She is getting ready for the ISEB common entrance examinations in January and I am shocked at how little science is taught in state primary schools compared to independent schools which places her at a disadvantage.

I love all my children equally and do not want any of them to feel less favoured, I remind my daughter in Kendrick Reading about that. Just that these two children are different in their own way. Having said that if none of our bursary applications are successful and my daughter passes to Kendrick Reading (I am not taking it for granted) I will gladly jump at it. Also common sense tells me that I need to meet the 20% school fees for my son and not be looking for any additional fee commitments for my daughter. Help this confused lady who is trying to do the right thing but might be getting it all wrong

I have a friend who was the oldest of 5, they all went to private schools, but her younger sisters went to Roedean and hers wasn't as good. She still loves them etc. but yes it still niggles 30-40 years later.

I also know a boy who was a choral scholar and then went to Eton on a Scholarship, his younger sister went to the local Comp. I think they can both resent each other (she got to stay at home whereas he boarded from 7, but he had the best education and amazing opportunities).
BTW my son was also published at 8 in a similar publication, he is strugglign to pass GCSE English, it really doesn't prove anything.

What are his English grades like in school or rather what are all his grades like in school. A child who starts off well academically, has a good grounding, lots of parental input as you cannot rely on state education in the Uk. If that child is sensible, I do not see why their grades should slip. Mine never did as I strived to be always on top of the game even whilst at university

MoreBeta, I can only really speak about the 10 boys who entered my DS's house at the same time as him. Two were the children of seriously wealthy "old money" parents. Two were on significant scholarships/bursaries and (I would guess) had relatively modest home lifestyles. The other six came from (sorry - huge generalisations) pretty standard "professional" families (doctors, solicitors, accountants, surveyor etc). Five of these six boys had both parents working. So, I was not overly concerned about the "lifestyle" issue.

Where I do agree with you is that Eton can be rather "sink or swim" and so not suited to every boy of 13.

I also agree that Eton is not nearly as mystical as some outsiders think. It's a very good school with nice buildings and a distinctive uniform. My DS had a great time there but when push comes to shove it's made up of 1300 adolescent boys of all types who are getting on with doing what adolescent boys do.

I have got nephews, nieces, godchildren who have been/are at every kind of school. I don't think any of them somehow "missed out" by not going to Eton. They all seem to be meeting their academic potential. They all seem to be happy. The motivated ones will succeed wherever they went to school.

Wasn't there a similar thread to this a few months ago. OP, are you chilli1234 in disguise?

But this thread was not necessarily about Eton per se, as people questioned sending my dd to an indie when the other is in a grammar. I would question why send one child to a grammar when the other is going to a comprehensive? isn't that prejudice despite one person passing the exams for it? As they will most likely get into better universities than their comprehensive counterpart. What if one goes to the 13 Russel group of universities and the others don't make it in there then want? Resentment builds amongst siblings? So it takes us back to square one - WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE. In order to be fair across the border of siblings????

Don't know about the thread will have to look it up

grovel - thank you for replying. I think that sounds a pretty fair assessment. That said, it is still a very very good school.

The fairness is about whether things happen because of the child's abilities/interests/personalities or because the parent chooses to prioritise the needs of one child above the needs of others, in a way that restricts what options they can offer to the other children.

If one child gets into a grammar and another doesn't, then hopefully each will be in a school that best suits their academic abilities.

If one child gets into a particular university or course and another doesn't, that's because of how the child does in their application.

If paying the 20% of the Eton fees for your son makes it impossible for you to consider school fees for your daughter, though she might benefit from it just as much, then there is an inherent unfairness in your choice.

What your daughter gets is not going to depend solely on her abilities or needs, but on the relative amount of your resources you are prepared to allocate to her education rather than your son's.

That's where resentment is likely to come from.

Life doesn't give us all the same. But parents are supposed to treat us fairly.

Parents being fair when life is not - That is precisely why the initial thread states that my daughter currently in year 6 is sitting for a grammar school and some Indies in Oxford.

And why my first child who is 13 had the option of an indie with an 80% bursary and the state grammar and choose the state grammar because it is not just any state grammar it is Kendrick

On a different note when do you enrol children for private GCSE tuition. Is it in year 10 or now. My daughter is in year 9

Mau you're on a wind up I think. You've just said 'it is not just any state grammar it is Kendrick' yet it's teaching is evidently so poor that you're going to buy in extra GCSE tuition .

The eldest seven of my eight children are all at the same school and I hope that the eighth will follow. I certainly wouldn't have done what you're proposing: AMumIn Scotland is absolutely right, it's inherently unfair and not a distiction based purely on aptitude or merit, which for your younger ones can't yet be known.

In theory I feel strongly that one makes choices based on the individual child and that whether that is state or private should not come into it. Mine are currently in state and we are likely to pull DD out at the end of yr2 because the school isn't meeting her needs and will leave the others there. At 11 DS1 will probably go to one of the top state comprehensives in the country because it is an amazing school where I will think he will thrive. It's unlikely DD will go there and DS2 is too young for us to make that decision. However, I feel comfortable doing what I have mentioned because ultimately both schools are excellent, have a similar mix of children, offer great extra curricular and I don't feel that one will be disadvantaged over the other. Crucially, we are not making that decision on economic grounds, we could put all 3 throgh private from 4 - 18 with no problem.

However, I think that your situation is different and the experiences your children will get are so extreme that it is not something I would do. If you are happy with the grammar for the girls I would send your DS to one of the good independent day schools in Oxford where he will have every opportunity and the gulf between him and his sisters will be much smaller. I don't know Oxford schools but I suspect that the difference between a day school and a grammar are small and is unlikely to cause friction.

I can see that the opportunity to have a child at Eton is amazing for you but despite that I just think that for family parity it may well be worth reconsidering as you have some great options in your area.

Gosh- i'd love to know the basis on which you're judging your children's morals over those of my children?

I'm staggered anyone could make such a statement without having met them.

I agree you're hardly looking for advice here are you?

Yellowstone. I would always opt for things like 11+ GCSE, A level Tuition whether the child is in a state or grammar school for reasons which should be obvious to every parent. My son who moved into an indie after year 4 was still sent for 11+ tuition to learn the technique so it is not about state or private school.

The independent days schools in Oxford are equally high ranking and if sibling resentment is in the pipeline for Eton, it will be if he goes to one of them. He actually got into one of them. The only way to make everyone happy is to have refused he go to any of them but rather go to the local state school or grammar school in order to be fair.

What if he grows up resenting his parents and the siblings that he was denied the opportunity because of?

I am not judging anyones kids as being immoral. Lets be adults here. I am simply saying that reference to the number of children I have in this thread is inappropriate as I could very well turn out a larger 5 than a fewer 2 or 1 as an example. Equally it could be the other way round. In life do not judge other people because they do not fit into your idea of what life should be e.g number of children as you may not even be doing a better job of raising yours than they are their lorry load. Different strokes for different folks

Well- that won't happen will it, because he's morally superior

I'm sorry, but your post of 13:56 is completely unintelligible to me comp educated as i am.

Good for you Swanker it worked for you and does not mean that you are less happy or successful than someone who went to a grammar or an indie. I would not judge you based on that or the number of children you have/choose to have or anything else because as I said life is funny the person you judge may very well be doing better than you. So live and let live. I am comfortable with what I term my famous five and would not have it any other way. So anyone contributing to the thread should not snigger at the number of children.

I do not judge people, other than on their words and actions; you judged my children in your post of 11:36.

I came to this thread because I was denied the opportunity of a place in a top school, and it has had a lasting effect on me.

so you can relate with my reluctance to deny my son a place in order to please his siblings or appear fair. And what guarantee do I have that I will have pleased them .

Gosh. Eton really is embracing this meritocracy thing. Is your son very like you, OP?

As a matter of interest, is he receiving a full fees scholarship for the Oxford prep school?

He is receiving an 80% one. And is strong willed and very forward unlike me

I didn't think these 80% scholarships were aimed at those who can afford private tutoring at every juncture for five kids?

Mau you really don't need to tutor bright kids who have the luxury of a very good school. Eats unnecessarily into free time and wastes a shedload of money. Of course if they've only passed the 11+ because of extra tutoring then I see that they might struggle to keep up.

There is no way I'd turn down the 80% just so all your kids can have the same educational experience. Your other children are in top establishments or you are seeking scholarships elsewhere. Do not penalise your son, all he has done is achieve and he should be rewarded for this. I'm sure if your eldest wanted to leave to get a bursary elsewhere then that route could be pursued.

There will be benefits for the whole family if your child goes to Eton. Some rich Etonian boyfriends for your girls! But seriously, let your girls be exposed to such an environment and it may drive them on to get into a similar school on a scholarship.