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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

AS script returned - school not particularly interested.

30 replies

mrsrhodgilbert · 21/09/2011 15:19

Dd1 didn't do as expected in the summer but was only 4 marks off the predicted grade. Through school we got the script back and last week she showed it to her old English teacher (different ones this year). I thought the teacher would spend a little time looking through it with her, 10 minutes maybe. Not so, just a quick 2 minute chat before a lesson to say it will be easy to make up 4 marks next summer, not to worry. Is this normal? Thanks

OP posts:

mnistooaddictive · 21/09/2011 17:05

Well, this is my view. A teacher does not have to give up their time to go through the paper with your daughter, partcuarly as she didnt prepare her for this exam. The vast majority of teachers would do this however. It could be that the teacher is new and inexperienced and doesn't have experience of this module and doesn't feel confident to give advice. They could also be extremely busy and not have the time. It may only be 10 minutes but if they do this for everyone then it very quickly adds up. It may be worth getting a tutor to go through in detail what went wrong.

Cartoonjane · 21/09/2011 17:08

Personally I would always find time to go through a paper in these circumstances but there are many who wouldn't, sometimes for reasons mentioned above such as lack of confidence doing so. Your DD could ask explicitly, or ask someone else if there's someone she knows and feels comfortable asking.

Original poster

mrsrhodgilbert · 21/09/2011 17:14

If I wasn't clear, she went to find her old teacher, the one who taught her last year. She has 2 new teachers this year and wouldn't think of asking those in the first instance. I thought the point of getting a script back was so the student and teacher could look through it to see what the issue was or indeed if it had been fairly marked/ a resit was advisable.

OP posts:

TeamDamon · 21/09/2011 17:22

Did your DD make an appointment to see this teacher? If she did, and specified that it was to go through her script to work out where she went wrong and to discuss whether she should resit, then it does seem a little unreasonable of the teacher not to give her ten minutes or so.

If your DD just caught her between classes and thrust the script into her hand, expecting feedback there and then, then I'm not surprised she only got a quick two minute chat.

For what it's worth, I would not advise a student who missed the grade above by four marks to resit. If a student is continuing to A2, AS grades are irrelevant - it's the number of marks that matters. And the teacher is quite right; your DD's time is better spent on focusing on her A2 study.

Original poster

mrsrhodgilbert · 21/09/2011 17:28

The teacher took the script home to read and dd arranged to see her after school the next day. During the next day the teacher spotted dd in school and had a 2 minute chat then instead of after school. I am not expecting her to resit, just thought, as the teacher was happy to look through it that she might have given a few pointers. I was merely wondering what other schools do.

OP posts:

mnistooaddictive · 21/09/2011 21:58

It isn't case of other schools but other teachers as there are no policies on this kind of thing. It sounds to me as if there was no one thing, just across the board weaker performance. If the teacher could have said you need to ..... Then she probably would have done.

noblegiraffe · 21/09/2011 22:08

How long I would take to go through it would depend on how much there was to say. If odd marks were just being dropped here and there for different things, there wouldn't be much to say at all.

senua · 22/09/2011 08:59

I find the teacher's attitude bizarre. Don't they do practice questions as preparation for the exam, in order to learn from their mistakes? Surely this is, effectively, a practice-paper-with-bells-on: she wants to learn from her AS paper in order to improve her A2 result.

If the school can't/won't give specific, personalised help then perhaps a tutor is the best bet.

gingeroots · 22/09/2011 09:49

As far as what happens in other schools - I would not be surprised at all if this had happened at DS's school .
Furious ,but not surprised .
Hope your DD is not too put off and keeps on perservering .

mnistooaddictive · 22/09/2011 09:53

ginger - why are you furious. This isnt actaully part of a teachers contracted work. If they dont want to give up their time for free, they have that right. How many other professions are reguarly expected to do extra unpaid? When working I used to do at least 4 hours every week on things like this but with the current pay freeze and pensions hit I can understand any teacher who doesn't feel they should give any more.

goinggetstough · 22/09/2011 10:34

Sorry but I agree with Ginger I would be annoyed too. As this is an AS paper the student is still in school/college and I would expect them to go through a paper when they had time.
In answer to mnist lots of professions work overtime for no extra pay, we do and we too are on a pay freeze. No one was suggesting that this should happen after school but at a convenient moment during the school day.

gingeroots · 22/09/2011 11:48

If the teacher had arranged a time to see the student I would expect them to either keep that appointment or rearrange another .
Not catch someone on the hoof ,passing by .

If the teacher does not have the time to look at the paper and discuss this with the student ,then they should politely explain this .

This is common courtesy and the standard of behaviour that is expected from students at school .

gingeroots · 22/09/2011 11:59

and you're not seriously suggesting that being regularly expected to work unpaid overtime is unusual or confined to teaching are you ?

thereinmadnesslies · 22/09/2011 12:08

Could it be that the teacher thinks that your DD would be better focusing her attention on this year's work - surely they would have said if they felt a remark or resit was worth considering, and if she was 4 marks off the predicted grade it doesn't sound like anything went catastrophically wrong.

mnistooaddictive · 22/09/2011 12:09

No I am not, but actually anyone being asked to work unpaid overtime does have a right to say no. Teachers work many hours extra and sometimes you have to say no. You honestly cant give time to every student who asks for it every time. Teachers are also entitled to breaks GGT. A "convienient moment during the school day" means either during break time which is only long enough to go the toilet and grab a drink or lunchtime. As teachers are usually now banned from drinking hot drinks anywhere but the staffroom, giving up a breaktime means you dont get to go to the toilet all morning and dont get a drink either when you are talking most of the time.

You also dont know the circumstances of that teacher. What they are dealing with and how many other srudents had asked them for help. If you want one to one then you pay for a tutor.

Original poster

mrsrhodgilbert · 22/09/2011 12:44

It would seem that all this is dependent on the goodwill of the teacher then. I assumed that said teachers would be to happy to spend a short time sorting out a few students at what is such a critical time in their education. It probably was a case of just a few points here and there in this instance.

However the school are very keen to get every last grade squeezed out of the kids. I have to admit to a bit of a sigh about the comments on overtime and 4 extra hours. My dh does not have working hours, he is expected to do the job, whatever it takes. Yes he is rewarded for it, though not so much in the current climate, but he takes calls late at night, weekends, on the sunlounger on holiday and he can't just say no. Not if he wants to retain his job. I'm sure he is not alone.

OP posts:

noblegiraffe · 22/09/2011 13:06

But the teacher took the script home, looked at it and talked to your daughter. She didn't refuse!

gingeroots · 22/09/2011 13:23

Well ,to my mind she might as well have done .
Feedback on something as important as this shouldn't be given when the recipient isn't expecting it .
I presume the teacher was too busy - in which case they should have explained this at the outset .
Education at my son's school had become very much a tick box exercise .
It leaves one powerless - the school say they're offering xyz , get an outstanding ofsted .
But when you scratch the surface you find a different reality .
One example would be stressed and overstretched teachers .

As noblegirrafe says - teacher didn't refuse to look at script or give feedback .
Theoretically nothing to complain about . But personally I would think the teacher may as well not have bothered in first place .Except that would have left her/him open to criticism ,so motions gone through and student feels unsupported .
I totally understand that the teacher is probably too busy to offer more - but she should have said so at outset .

eatyourveg · 22/09/2011 14:10

We are getting an AS script back for ds1 who was 2 grades off his prediction. When I asked the teacher if there was any mileage in asking for it she agreed and said that she would go through the paper with him to see where he lost the marks. She is also going to spend time each week during ds1's free period going through it meticulously so that by the time the resit comes, he will hopefully be back on track. Guess its in her interests too to get him a decent grade.

noblegiraffe · 22/09/2011 14:38

2 grades is slightly different to 4 marks. 2 grades will need hard work to make up. Sometimes grubbing around on a paper for an extra 4 marks isn't that productive.

goinggetstough · 22/09/2011 15:24

I expect MrsRG is hoping for more than a few extra marks if her DD resits or even for A2s where she would hope she was more securely in the next grade band. So it is no different to the other scenario.
IMO it is so important to go through papers and past papers. Obviously your DD can't do this herself as she won't have the marking guide as these are often not released until next year as teachers use the most recent exam for mocks. My DS found it useful to look at the examiner's comments too on the exam. This is usually on the past papers part of the exam board website and really highlights what they are looking for.
Good luck to your DD for her A2s.

Original poster

mrsrhodgilbert · 22/09/2011 15:34

Going, thanks for the tip about the examiners comments on the exam. I have never heard of that and it sounds very interesting. Presumably they won't be available until after the mocks for this summers paper. Will look out for them though. The teacher did say something about the grade boundaries having been tightened up again and she would have got her grade last year. We have parents evening next week and one of her new teachers is Head of English, a word with him might be useful.

OP posts:

noblegiraffe · 22/09/2011 16:08

It is important to go through past papers, but before the exam, not after. If she resits, and she may not need to, then she could do the post-mortem as exam preparation.

webwiz · 22/09/2011 16:13

Examiner's reports are usually available as soon as the results for that paper are out so the summer ones are on all the exam board websites. They can be an entertaining read especially when a question has been messed up by most of the candidates!

goinggetstough · 22/09/2011 16:14

AS exams are building blocks for A2. So a debrief on an AS paper is not a waste of time especially in english.

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