Have your children got into Grammar school without tutoring?

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Hi
Live in Dorset and would like son to go to Poole Grammar, but wider question is, as above, has anyone had a child get into Grammar without paying for a private tutor?

Mrsrat, we are in the same position of waiting till march to find out if dd actually has a place or not. Here it goes on distance to school and we are right on the boundary of the usual cut off. Often half the kids in the village who passed get in and the other half don't. We are the wrong end of the village as well.

"Mrsrat a system where your child can score so highly yet still be unable to gain a place is fundamentaly wrong" - that's not the system. It's unfair that so many people are left in limbo until March, but in theory there is a grammar place for every child who 'passes' (i.e. attains the minimum score deemed to be the qualifying score). The tests are standardised - the total number of children "passing" will approximately equal the number of grammar places available.

Mrsrat are you familiar with the 11+ website forum for Gloucestershire? It's quite useful at this point of the procedure as people post when they 'release' places they no longer need so if you keep tabs on that you may find out before March which school/s you're likely to be offered.

We just did a couple of each paper (maths, English and VR) with dd a few weeks before the exam so that she knew the format. However bright they are they can be thrown by questions posed in a way they are not familiar with. Good luck!

As peeps say passing is one thing and getting a place is another.
Very few parents let the place slip, I have no idea how many ( I think no more than 5 maybe 10%), but some hang on to it till first days in September ant that is very frustrating.

In oversubscribed schools there are minor differences in points between top and bottom of the points for which place is given, then every half a point counts, and in some cases that may be poor handwriting or lack of knowledge what needs to be included in a written story so that there extra points awarded.

Hi happyAvocado - here in Gloucestershire we are able to apply to all the grammar schools at once, so some people are holding onto 4 places at the mo - they have to let the LEA know soon which place they intend to take up next Sep, so the other 3 places are then 'released' and the schools will then allocate places to the next people on their list. People aren't allowed to hold all the places indefinitely.

Mrsrat, here's the link to the other forum - already lots of details about places being released and it might put your mind at rest:
www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/viewforum.php?f=16

Clarest, in the town where I live the system is unfair, passing doesn't guarantee a place. The pass mark here in lincolnshire is 220. The girls school requires this for a place provided you are within catchment. For the boys school however they don't have a catchment, it is the top 145 marks that get in. So you have parents of out of county able to have their children tutored effectively pushing out kids from this town who would get a place. Add into this that until everyone has applied you don't know what score you aee

Cont...Aiming at and this leads to the system of not knowing until march.

Wormshuffler - we're the other end of the county. Different system but still think its unfair. Our grammar goes on distance. So DD has passed but may not get a place. She could get maximum marks but not get a place but someone who lives closer but scrapes a pass could get a place.

I don't think there is a fair way, someone will always lose out.

Let's face it, the grammar school system is unfair, its not the brightest kids that get in, but the ones who's parents want it for their kids.

My son has just passed the eleven plus without tutoring (got the results this evening - Kent). So far I know of one other from his class who has got through without tutoring as well - though they both did some practice over the summmer holidays. Now going to celebrate

My impression is that most of the children who got a place at grammar had been coached or still being coached possibly until the end of six form. I blieve you all know.... Not because of the children not being clever enough to get a place or cope with their school work without being tutored but because of the parents' constant worries. Tutoring is like Botox. Once you start, you can't stop!

Singinggirl, congratulations! Wormshuffler, yes, I think any admissions system for grammars is going to be unfair in one way or another. We don't have catchment areas either and lots of kids arrive on the train from an hour away. I also think it's really unfair in Glos that both test papers are verbal reasoning, so vocab is really important - so that immediately discriminates against any child who doesn't have English as their first language, no matter how bright they are.

Lurkingmum, I would say 80% of the kids at the grammar school my children go to were tutored for the 11+. But I honestly don't know of a single child who has been tutored since - or maybe the parents are keeping v quiet about it?!??!

I do think parents keep quiet about tutoring. I only know about other kids being tutored because the kids have talked about it amongst themselves and DD has told me!

Claryest - I don't think that is the case in many areas. The Sutton Grammars have no geographical catchement and get thousands of applicants from all over S London. Many of whom have been tutored intensively since Yr3. They couldn't possibly accommodate all who passed!

Viva, I will keep my ears more open ;)

Well, (coming late to thread) DS1 and DS2 weren't tutored and both passed the 11+ and got into local Grammar.
DS3 was tutored and DIDN'T pass.

To me, this sums the dilemma up.

DS1 and 2 deserved a place at Grammar - it was and is the right place for them.

DS3 isn't really grammar material (though very bright at maths) and rightly, didn't pass.

Thanks for all the comments I do feel a bit better as I think it was just the initial shock of scoring quite well but being so low on the list. DH and I have decided that we cant go through the stress of waiting until March as there are a bunch of other factors which are making our lives very stressful at the moment ( illness being one of them ) and we have decided to do something I dont really want to do, but, we are going to move to be close to friends and a house has come up in the catchment of a great state school. All up in the air but need to be decided before the 31st when applications need to be in. (gnaws away at nails frantically )

Mrsrat - you don't fancy one of the other Glos grammars then?

If she has passed the test, she should get a place at one of them. Might mean a bit of a journey, but depending on the alternatives, may be worth it. All the girl's grammars round here have a good reputation and seem very happy places.

We do but even though she passed the test mark required she is still ranked 221st for SHS (there are only 120 places ) and about the same for GHS. She is slightly higher placed for Ribston but not that much higher and although I know there is movement we are definitely in the "twilight " area.
Woke up this morning all confused again. I cant bear this. I was so naive about the whole process as until 6 months ago had been private but then whole world fell apart.
Doesnt help that such a short time frame to make all the decisions.

Ds1 wasn't tutored.But we did get papers for him to have a practice on.We returned from Ireland and 5 months later he sat 11+.We are in Lincolnshire.He does not go to the nearest Grammar but to one that is selective as we all liked it more[it really suits him]
The local comp,however is also supposed to be very good.Who knows what will happen with ds2[only 4 and a half]
The 11+ forum is very useful.

Wormshuffler "I have heard stories about people getting specifically trained for the 11 plus for 4 years, which amounts to no less than buying a seat at grammar."

hmm. not sure why tutoring for 4 years is "buying" a place, but tutoring for one term, or two terms, or one year, is not..

system should just be scrapped. Lets just have streaming (and flexibility to move between streams) in all ability schools; recognising that children develop at different speeds.

no more of this intense competition between parents (not the children) - and unfair pressure on the children - for a scarce resource.

problem solved.

I agree that I think Grammars should be scrapped and that having flexible streaming in schools would be a better system.

Msrat
Having gone through the Glos 11+ a couple of years ago, I wouldn't loose all hope.
That year, everyone who got a pass mark, got a place at Marling - can't swear it was true for SHS but think it was.
Good luck with with getting things sorted by 31st.