Have your children got into Grammar school without tutoring?

[Seasider]

Hi
Live in Dorset and would like son to go to Poole Grammar, but wider question is, as above, has anyone had a child get into Grammar without paying for a private tutor?

[Wormshuffler]

TheWomanOnTheBus The reason I say that 4 years of tutoring is effectively buying a place is because with 4 years tutoring you are never going to fail, it is very possible to train someone how to pass the 11 plus. Thus by spending £6000 on tutoring you are effectively buying a place.
Less than 6 months tutoring would not get the same child to the same level.

[notquiteruralbliss]

It depends on the type of exam, i.e whether it depends on exam technique that can be taught and whether a high percentage of DCs are tutored.

In some cases, there are always X different question types, tactics for attacking each of which can be taught and practiced to get speed up. In that situation, even a super bright DC who wasn't taught how to pass the exam would be at a massive disadvantage as compared to one who was well prepared. In that situation, I would consider using a tutor with a good track record for that specific exam, especially if a high percentage of DCs were tutored.

3 of my DCs ( all very bright so would not have been happy in a secondary modern which is the fallback where I live) got into grammar school (via an exam which was very much one that where tutoring makes a huge difference). One with no preparation whatsoever (we were a bit clueless at the time and she was lucky) and two with(low key but effective) tutoring to improve their confidence and technique.

[1977traceM]

Hi I am planning to get my daughter to sit for Gloucester grammar schools exam for next year.any tips from mums who did train their kids this year?im not planning to do tutoring ,but I thougt just worth trying.as we live in Bristol,does anyone know the transport fascilities for children those who go to Gloucester grammar schools?any tips on this subject will be appreciated.

[bluesky1986]

hi we live in somerset(near yeovil), nearest grammer school is poole grammer school. Any tip which primary school shouild I send my kid

[IntheMotherhood]

We didn't get a tutor but my husband and I did sit down with DS to work on weak areas highlighted from practise papers (completed in school).
Chukra Online for reasoning practise in 20mins bursts helped too. All this came second to enjoying the summer holiday, playing with friends, reading widely etc.

We're turning down the Grammar for a co-ed Indie school with an academic record more representative of real life on the basis we think DS will actually enjoy his school days more. We don't think he needs a rarefied academic environment (appreciate some kids and parents do).

[Toomanytealights]

So you did tutor.

A private school is hardly representative of real life.

[IntheMotherhood]

If you count parental engagement as tutoring, yes. I feel flattered! I wouldn't rate my skills highly enough for anyone to pay though.

I said the academic results were more representative of real life. But I hear you, ability to pay is not representative of real life. But we, like many parents, make sacrifices to have this choice and the school is not a rarified socio economic environment either.

Someone further up this threadsaid that bright children don't need Grammar environments to meet their academic potential / but it does make a difference to children from lower income households. I would agree with that.

[TalkinPeace]

2011 ZOMBIE THREAD

but yes some do

but it does make a difference to children from lower income households. I would agree with that.
NOPE because they do not get in nowadays

[IntheMotherhood]

Talkin That's a shame. Why do you think that might be though?

[spacecadet48]

Inthemotherhood they probably don't get in as DP don't have the funds to pay for private tuition or are not in a position themselves to prepare there DC for the exams. The notion that there are folks out their that think 'we didn't pay for a tutor' and our DC gets in makes me laugh. You would have to be 'super' bright to not have sat an exam before and skipped into a grammar school from a state school. Most Grammars standards are set the same as private. Therefore entrance is extremely competitive. State schools are not preparing DC for entrance exams and have small numbers who used to sit the now extinct 'level 6' in sats. Which was the level expected for private and grammar. I would be interested to look at the stats for where DC are coming from that enter grammar, ? prep schools, private, ...I know lots of DP who say 'we didn't use tutors', these are the same DP who don't tell you their DC was at a prep from age 4 or who took time off to work with their DC, those that had their DC doing bond books from age 6 and the various other books available and getting DC to sit exam papers every night. We are in a nice area in London and none of the local state primary DC got into grammar schools. That's with some having tuition, so just shows you how high the bar is set. However this maybe especially high in London so may not be the case elsewhere, although I would guess it is.

[spacecadet48]

Seasider my advice to you is when DP are saying they are not paying for a tutor not to assume that means their DC isn't doing any extra work at home, or listen to the schools who say its not needed. You are doing your DC a disservice not to help them prepare for sitting an exam. They will be competing with DC who have been prepped for years. You don't need to hire in a tutor. You can get your DC to sit timed papers, look at where the gaps in knowledge are and work on those, non verbal and verbal is practice, plenty of books available to get your DC to practice. Download papers from the school website so you can see the expected standard. It is doable but you need to give our DC a fighting chance.

[RaspberryCheese]

I got into grammar school without tutoring and i was dragged up poor in the inner city, in a broken home.

[spacecadet48]

RaspberryCheese are talking recently or years ago? As things have changed

[IntheMotherhood]

Many parents from my DC school didn't even bother applying for grammar as the competition / volumes are very competitive. Plus the fact the exams are in Sept (rather than Jan) meant many did not feel their DC were 'exam ready'.

There's plenty of stuff out there that tells you that grammars don't benefit bright kids from low income households / but almost sweet F.a on action to remedy this. I don't think lowering thresholds is the right solution. I too would love to see stats on composition of grammar intake.

It is such a decisive state funded education instrument.

[IntheMotherhood]

Don't benefit from grammar through lack of access! Not from accessing and then not benefitting...

[RaspberryCheese]

Well my entry to GS was some years ago. I guess places were more plentiful then. Who was it who binned of G schools? Was it Labour? David Blunkett i 1995? They didnt of course pull the rug from under their own children. Typical socialist Hypocrites but i digress.

Im sure with good parents and a decent school, the badge above the door doesnt really matter does it? Is there an element of keeping up with the Joneses?

[TalkinPeace]

Who was it who binned of G schools?
Thatcher in the 70's
Typical socialist Hypocrites but i digress.
Get your facts straight

[Toomanytealights]

Loads of kids in state primaries are working towards greater depth and the new Sats are hard. Work in year 5 is 11+ standard. Schools in our area state that the exams are are based on the year 5 state curriculum. In our area the vast maj of kids come from state schools and only do a bit of extra at home or with a tutor in year 5. Pp kids do get in,they're not at the levels they should be but work is being done so they are rising. Would be interested to know the levels of PP kids in top sets at the top comps.

London doesn't speak for all grammar areas.

[TalkinPeace]

London doesn't speak for all grammar areas.
THere are only 164 grammar schools

• Kent
  
• Lincolnshire
  
• Buckinghamshire
  
• parts of London
  
• a few in Dorset
  
• a few in Birmingham
  
• two in Wilstshire
  
• a couple on Merseyside
  

basically most of the country is mercifully free of them

[RaspberryCheese]

The Labour party under Blair and Blunkett, were opposed to selective education (apart from their own children of course). Many Labour ministers are guilty of gross hypocrisy . Take for instance two jags Prescott. He birthed and promoted the pathfinder scheme in which ordinary working people were thrown out of their homes, the homes demolished and the land sold to developers on which to build private housing. Who is more likely to promote Grammar education? Labour or Conservative? Clearly the latter.

[sassymuffin]

I live on the Wirral, we have 6 Grammars on this small peninsular and over the last few years it is becoming more common that the year 7 intake is not full. It's a strange area educationally speaking as it is a labour stronghold.

[IntheMotherhood]

That's really assuring to hear that entry into Granmar can be achieved with practise at home and not over tutoring. Secondary transfer in London is oversubscribed in every sector - which explains the scenario soacecadet accurately describes.

I'd like to see any research on education attainment of PP kids in grammars V top sets in comps too. I think the issue is this cohort is just too underrepresented for anything to be stat significant (a guess, would love to be proven wrong).

[TalkinPeace]

motherhood
The research was published year before last by the Institute for Education.
It was extensively discussed on here.
Grammar schools improve pupil grades by 1/3 of a GCSE grade.
The kids excluded from the grammar do 2/3 of a grade worse
So a net loss to all children
Compared with comp schools.