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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Secondary French Levels question ......again!

21 replies

DinosaurRumpus · 17/06/2011 13:16

I started a thread a while ago asking about levels in French in Year 7 and was reassured that a level 3 in Year 7 was not too bad....

I've just been to DS1's parents evening and have been given his final levels for the end of Year 7. He has a level 6 in Maths, English and Science and level 5 in all other subjects except French where he has a level 3!

This still seems very low given his ability in other areas of study and I know that there are many students in his group who have been given level 4. His teacher said 'he's not going to break any records in this subject' and asked whether he was good at maths, suggesting that because he is good at maths his brain probably doesn't 'do' languages

So I'm wondering what to do. Do I let him plod along and accept that maybe languages are 'not his thing' or is there anything I can do to help him? He has to start a second language (he's chosen German) in September so I'm keen to help him 'get to grips' with language learning if I can....

Any ideas / advice / experiences would be much appreciated :)

OP posts:

feckwit · 17/06/2011 13:24

I would say first of all that they do seem to fly through the levels quicker from yr 8 onwards. My daughter is just coming to the end of yr8, she did 6 months of french in year 7 and 6 months of german and then this year had to pick one (she has picked german).

Prior to high school she had done NO languages at all but seems to be quite talented in them (both french and german were fighting over having her this year).

Anyway, I just found her academic record and can see she was a 3c in MFL in term 1 of year 7, this went to 3a in term 2 and 5c in term 3, but like I said she was top of the year and won the German prize (out of 280 in her year).

Wht I am saying, in a long winded way, is that although a level 3 seems low, that is because we are comparing to primaries and we see level 3 a high achieving year 2 students. In high school it is different and he may not be doing brilliantly, but I wouldn't worry too much yet.

Incidentally, she was a 3a in art at the end of year 7 and is now a 5c on her latest record.So big jumps do happen.

Original poster

DinosaurRumpus · 17/06/2011 14:23

That's interesting, thanks :)
DS did very little MFL learning at primary, so he too has been starting from scratch...

OP posts:

DialMforMummy · 17/06/2011 14:27

Because they start French in Year 7 they start from 0, therefore it is normal for the languages levels to be lower.
I would not lose sleep over levels anyway, they are a bit pointless IMO.
If you want to help your DC, I would help him reinforce basics such as verb manipulation for example, IME students struggle with the concepts of tenses and verb endings.

GrimmaTheNome · 17/06/2011 14:35

As far as I can see, at this stage 3-4 is normal range for French. My DD said they weren't being graded above a 4s (IIRC) - this is in a grammar school where they grade up to 8 in maths and science, not somewhere with generally low expectations IYSWIM!

Tinuviel · 17/06/2011 17:43

I really struggle with the idea that any year 7 child who has only been doing a language for 1 year can attain a level 5 unless they are having coaching outside school. Most schemes of work will simply not move up that much. The jump from level 4 to level 5 is a significant leap because they have to be able to use the present, past and future tenses. Some schools teach them 2 sentences in the past tense and then claim they are level 5, which really is not the way it is supposed to work. I would expect top set pupils to be level 4, possibly 3a and bottom sets to be around level 2-3c. I work in an school with a 'true comprehensive mix'!!

Tinuviel · 17/06/2011 17:44

That's not knocking your DD, feckwit - she is clearly doing really well. I just wish schools would not inflate levels.

cat64 · 18/06/2011 00:07

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bruffin · 18/06/2011 00:42

At the end of yr7 in Dcs school the level 4s were fast tracked and most of them got A* for gCSE in yr9.
But it all can be a bit odd as DD did French in yr7 was a level 4c end of first term of yr8, but was also the same level for Italian which she did not start until yr8 and had been doing less than a term.

feckwit · 18/06/2011 00:45

That's ok tinuviel, I don't think her levels are inflated, her others are more "average" for her age but german is her thing - I speak French german, spanish and some Italian so it is genetic!

PartialToACupOfMilo · 18/06/2011 21:50

HoD MFL in a grammar school here. We do a condensed KS3 of 2 yrs. We expect yr7s to achieve level 4 by end of yr7 and level 6-7 by end of yr8. By Christmas of yr7 most pupils are level 2-3. Hardly anyone is a level 5 by the end of yr7 as they need to know one further tenses in addition to the present (and then another to reach level 6) and we don't cover this until the last month of yr7 - by which point the end of year grades are already in the system. The jump from level 4-5 is huge, but most of our pupils achieving a level 4 by the end of the year, reach level 5 by Christmas of yr 8. In my last school, a comp, we expected pupils to reach level 3-4 by end of yr7 and level 6 by end of yr9.

klm4765 · 18/06/2011 22:05

Maybe you could spend a few days in France over the summer? More to increase confidence than actually learn anything specific?

natwebb79 · 21/06/2011 12:54

As a Head of French at a secondary school I can assure you that level 3 by the end of year 7 is great, perhaps a very low level 4 for the gifted. In year 8 we usually concentrate on level 4 and low level 5 for the gifted. In year 9 we work towards level 6 for the more able. The way the levels work mean that it takes a lot of work and content to achieve levels 3 and 4, then levels 5 and 6 are achieved mainly by adding the past and future tense to their work. So it's a big effort to achieve level 4, then a wee hop up to level 6. Hope that helps :)

cat64 · 21/06/2011 19:56

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Toulabelle · 13/07/2014 10:07

Well I am a high achiever in both maths and French but I like French, so my advice to you would to be make sure that he likes languages if you're going to push him really hard.

Toulabelle · 13/07/2014 12:17

I am a year 7 and although I did monthly half an hour vocab French lessons in primary school, I had not done French properly until year 7. I love it and I would like tutoring outside of school but i don't have it. However in my last report I got a 6- and that is for being able to write in 4 tenses, I think that you should be able to get any level, so long as you are willing to work at it.

comfycushion · 14/07/2014 08:40

My son just finishing year 7 and his french is a 5c.

He has never done french before and we do not do any at home and i honestly think its a waste of time learning it.......

I would rather him be doing more maths or english or at least something useful.

comfycushion · 14/07/2014 08:42

My son just finishing year 7 and his french is a 5c.

He has never done french before and we do not do any at home and i honestly think its a waste of time learning it.......

I would rather him be doing more maths or english or at least something useful.

AT NATWEB ;;; D o they really work to those levels at your school, seems low to me.

Happy36 · 15/07/2014 02:35

Progress in French is increasingly rapid. In Year 7 it is expected that the level for French will be lower than for core subjects as those were taught in Year 6 and before that. At my school we expect level 4c by the end of Year 7 which is the first year of learning French. Level 5b is expected by the end of Year 8. It is a very popular choice for GCSE in Year 9 and last year was the GCSE in which we had the best results.

All in all I would not worry about your son´s achievement. Keep encouraging him.

Shouldwego · 15/07/2014 12:03

Natweb's figures make sense to me.

DS just finishing year 8 is a 4a in German and is in the top set. He is at the lower end of the top set but is staying in the top set for next year. He started german from scratch in yr7 having never studied languages.

LadybirdsEverywhere · 17/07/2014 08:33

Most schools only go up to level 4 in French in year 7. Comfycushion - encourage the French! Speaking another language is a wonderful, practical skill and, since languages are considered academically rigorous, a good grade in MFL will also be highly impressive on a CV.

I promise that French is not a waste of time.

mumsneedwine · 17/07/2014 08:46

Just looked at one of mine and they were 3A at end of year 7, 5C at end of year 8 and 7B at end of year 9 ! So progress is anything but steady. She's now doing the BA Award and it's been brilliant for making her actually speak French (rather than spout what she has memorised).

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