Public schools gurus - Eton?

[carltonscroop]

This is more a fond dream than an actual plan. Yes, I've done some reading up, but wanted to ask any parents with recent(ish) first hand knowledge.

What's it really like? What sort of boy does it suit? Is it really worth the additional expense. (not the fees themselves IYSWIM but being at the high end - and on the same theme, are many things billed as extras) How hard is the scholarship exam? Has anything in particular surprised/pleased/disappointed you/your son/s?

"I refuse to believe that Eton has all the Cleverest Boys Ever in the World, as has been suggested by one person on this thread on another discussion."

Yes, I refuse to believe that too. But if that?s what you read on that other thread, perhaps an urgent appointment with your optician to have your eyes tested is not before time because that?s not how I read it on the other thread.

"It was pronounced suggested on another Oxbridge thread that the boys from Eton were all bound to get places because they were the most intelligent boys in the country or even, world!!"

Either the optician or back to school now to relearn the English language to understand what was actually written on that other thread.

Colleger, for those who are still living in the 18th and 19th century and think that Oxbridge is the be all and end all for education, well good luck to them. You're right, many bright Etonians don't bother in the modern day, "Five years at a medieval college is more than enough for me and I don't need to see another one at Oxbridge" seems to be the current thinking. Instead, many are headed towards Uncle Sam country. But having said that, over 90 (94?) Etonians this year have Oxbridge offers.

Just to demonstrate the point, I was speaking to a pair of twins this afternoon at the playing fields - both got Oxbridge offers, one decided to go Oxbridge and the other, USA! First time in 18 years that these brothers are to be seperated which just about sums it up for me.

Btw, I saw in your earlier post that you couldn't make it to the playing fields today. What a shame, the biggest crowd I've seen to date. Maybe the tremendous weather has something to do with it?

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mumzy, one swallow does not make a summer.

Look at The Financial Times League Table carefully and think again. Ignoring the current year ranking for now (which is already ranked), total up the ranking numbers of the preceding 4 years of each school. Theorically speaking, the lower the total number, the ?more academic? the school is.

Eton churns out a number 27 for the preceding four years. This instantly obliterates the 5 schools ranked immediately above it including all the 3 grammar schools which may have achieved their current year ranking by fluke. Effectively, the independents would have dealt the grammars a wipeout!

Which brings Eton immediately below Winchester in this argument. Of the remaining top 8 schools now standing, three of them are girls? schools and are only a fraction (appx. one-third) of the size of Eton and therefore cannot be brought in for comparison.

The question whether Eton is academic or not now becomes more interesting:
? Would Winchester (half the size of Eton) and Magdalen College (one-third the size) be ranked above Eton if these schools inflate their student numbers in parity to Eton's?

? Similarly, can St. Paul?s Boys be sitting pretty at the top 3 position if they added another 85 boys to their cohort?

? What would top dog Westminster be like if one-third of their cohort (the girls) are removed to be replaced with 132 boys to compare like with like with Eton?

mumzy I really don't buy the idea that you should judge a shcool solely on the results its pupils receive. Blimey, that is so utilitarian.

An education should be about so much more than what A levels you get and where you end up at university. So you simply can't say X is better than Y because more pupils went to Oxbridge.

If that were the case you could say I , at the shittiest comp in my area, had a successful education because I ended up doing well. The reality is I had a dire education. The fact that my grades might have been higher than someone from Eton won't make that not so. Nor will it make an Eton education not worth it.

yellowstone the issue of connections is an interesting one.
I do believe that connections/contacts/ whatever one wnats to call them are invaluable in life. You meet someone, you click, then when they need someone they think of you. And vice versa. If you have been to a school where a. everyone developes incredibly close bonds due termly boarding and b. many of your peers will ultimately end up in positions of influence...then that must be incredibly helpful.

That's not to say one cannot make contacts in other ways of course. DH nad I have had to for our careers. But it is harder and less natural, I suspect than doing it at school.

Absokutely agree re the Oxbridge thing - candidates are much more savvy now about what they want to get out of their HE, and increasingly those with the intellingence and also the'get up & go' are choosing the Ivy League over Oxbridge. Should my DC be in the fortuante positon of having that choice and being undecided and seek my advice ( yeah... ) I would go for the US option.

Colleger these were very clever parents who have had two sons at Eton but they were not 'Establishment', far from it.

I'm aware that a lot of students push off to Ivy league places but there are an awful lot left who don't go either to those or to Oxford or Cambridge.

Discrimination?!! Presumably this is claimed by the Etonians who don't get in but for whom those two universities held no lure anyway. I've heard the same from other public schoolers, generally the less bright ones. The really bright have always got in, no problem. Sorry to say it but that thing about entrance policies/ the top 30% is just rubbish. Ask any tutor and they'll put you straight.

Eton may be a fabulous school but its over the top to say all Etonians are 'exceptional' in an academic context. Some clearly are but by no means all.

pete in the context of the wildly intemperate language used by you in many of your posts including quite revoltingly scatalogical metaphors, any comments are probably fair. Sorry, there is no justification for you to be so offensive at all, to anyone and that includes me.

It's a bit lame to be doing down Oxford and Cambridge now pete. Why would you do that I wonder?

Wow, I'm more incredulous at every post pete, if that's possible!

The tortuous suggestions (the hypothetical adding in more students to other schools, removing girls from Westminster) shows a desperation which can only be explained by a deep insecurity about the school whose placing you're artificially attempting to elevate. Eton will have the same staff:pupil ratio so your point is irrelevant at best.

But try applying your logic to the poor grammars whose success you appear to despise. What magic could they weave with the same staff:pupil ratio at Eton instead of teaching Sixth Form groups often of 25?

(This is a bore for others on the thread pete but as an aside, the playing fields/ Duke things gets more interesting the more one finds out, maybe you should check it out in more depth).

Look, I don't care about Eton one way or the other. I assume it's a fabulous school in many ways for the right boy and family, but the name is used (rightly or wrongly) as such a shorthand for upperclass privilege that it would never have crossed my radar.

Some of these arguments about its supremacy are just plain weird, though. Of course not everyone will choose to go to Oxford or Cambridge but to suggest that the entire Eton cohort could if they weren't discriminated against is clearly rubbish - as it would be for any of the 'top' schools. And to suggest that those who do want to go to Oxford or Cambridge are in some way backward is also odd. For some people (academically, financially, socially, attitudinally) going to the US will be the right choice. For some it won't. Regardless of the quality of education, not every 18 year old will want to move to another continent.

And the attempts to extrapolate numbers are also weird. All these schools take in large numbers of intelligent, well supported and in the main very rich children. It would be a terrible indictment of any of them if they didn't achieve good academic results at a minimum.

And one final point. It is of course illogical that any school could develop a child beyond their potential. It's a bit like going beyond infinity. Only Buzz Lightyear can do it.

Yellowstone, you seem to be a very typical parent whose son is not at Eton: can't stop posting/having an opinion on it. I believe if this were a league table then you would be at the top for most posts on this Eton thread!

Don't rub it in Pete - I hope you had a fabulous day. :)

Colleger I post individually as I read others so the numbers stack up. No big deal.

Anyone with any perspective of Eton may have something of value to say. I think almost the first thing I said was that I have no reason to like or dislike the school; I've also said that it obviously offers pupils a fabulous education. Is that what the typical parent whose sons go elsewhere tends to say? Seems fair.

Agree with everything said by singersgirl, by far the most coherent post on the thread.

OO I was coming on to say something positive but feel I've walked into a row!

Well I shall say it anyway, DH did some lectures to top years at Eton a few years ago, and said he couldn't have hoped for a more informed, interested, well mannered and engaging bunch of students. He hadn't been sure how it was going to be, but was delighted by the whole thing.

As you all were!

I've been watching this thread with some amusement. i have no first hand experience of Eton but have come across a number of Etonians. My experience of them is that they are all well educated, well mannered and charming. However my experience of their parents is that they are not.

and none of my OE friends has chosen to send their children there. I've never asked why.

and of course none of this is statistically significant in any way.

Most OE's sons that I know have not offered places at Eton in the last five years. I agree that some of the parents, especially those at paricular feeder schools...Summerfields, cough, splutter...are vile!

To the OP, it is a great school - I think the best - but there are other fantastic schools out there and it's horses for courses. Other son is in a "fourth tier" school but he is thriving and so happy. I hope he'll go to Eton but if he doesn't then he'll still have fantastic opportunities.

Have to say, all the boys we?ve met at Eton have been a delight and I?ve no doubt it offers a first-rate education, in terms of its extra-curricular and its networking opportunities in particular.

People (parents of boys there presumably) do themselves no favours, however, when they try to make fanciful claims about Eton being the last word in schooling. One of my nephews has done better than my DS and one has not ? I?m pretty sure this is down their respective intelligence rather than their schooling

I think that it's strength is that it provides a very wide education and it isn't an exam factory.

exoticfruits people often try to denigrate schools which get good results by labelling them 'exam factories'. Don't know why. I'd have thought very few schools which get truly excellent results are 'exam factories', I don't believe excellent results year on year can be achieved that way, I think it's broader and deeper than that.

Most schools which achieve those results also boast a rich extra curricular programme; high achievement in one area is generally mirrored in the other. That's clearly something Eton offers but in that respect it isn't unique.

I wasn't labelling any particular school as an exam factory. I was just pointing out that Eton will be beaten in league tables, but they get good results and a lot of extra curricular stuff-they are not alone.
It isn't 'the best' school,it is the best school for some DSs. If I had a highly academic DS and lots of money I might choose it.

DS is quite clever, so I suppose my only question would have been whether the most academic boys do as well there as they would anywhere else. I think the consensus on this thread is that they do, so that all seems fine. (I'm not that interested in league tables - more in range of subjects available and ability to timetable all combinations).

I'd been under a vague impression that Eton was big enough for most sorts of boys to thrive - still don't quite know what to think on this.

Not having spotted an Eton thread before, I didn't realise it would be so iffy. Also I haven't seen the one thread mentioned higher up this one. Does it contain info that help with my queries (and if so where is it)? Or is it one better avoided?

carltonscroop,
I note you have mentioned a few times that yours is just a ?fond dream?. I want to tell you that yesterday I was at a drinks party at Eton and met up with loads of parents. Somehow the discussion at some stage turned into why and how we ended up sending our boys to Eton. There were many amusing stories but all true, and most had a common theme in that we never thought that out DC would be attending Eton when we first started.

My own story was I used to travel from Slough along the A355 towards Old Windsor many moons ago long before DS was born. On the left was a rugby pitch with various buildings behind it and in my ignorance, I thought that was Eton, or part of it. My point is that at least you have a fond dream but I never even dreamt in a million years that one day my DS would be attending the real Eton and not the one I saw beside the A355 which I have since learnt is a state school.

So, go for it. Take DS for a visit with an open mind. You have nothing to lose. Reorganise your plans/fond dream after that. You don?t want to be thinking and regretting in 10/20 years time, ?What if . . .? etc.

Don?t worry too much about league tables. Eton will be the first to tell you they don?t believe in that kind of nonsense and have actually stopped supplying their exam details for many years now unless legally bound e.g. to the Department for Education.

You worry your clever child might not be challenged academically. May I humbly suggest that you turn your worry into whether your son is able to sustain the challenge and keep up with his peers or not. They do the harder IGCSE in most subjects unlike the GCSE in state schools where everyone scores a dozen A*s I?m told.

Colleger: - "Yellowstone, you seem to be a very typical parent whose son is not at Eton: can't stop posting/having an opinion on it. I believe if this were a league table then you would be at the top for most posts on this Eton thread!"

The Chinese have a proverb: ?Big eyes, but can?t see a mountain?.

Of course, we all know this is a very typical parent whose son is not at Eton: [but] can't stop posting/having an opinion on it.

It?s blatantly clear to everyone else but it?s old ?Big Eyes? herself who doesn?t seem to be able to see the mountain here!

"This is a bore for others on the thread pete but as an aside, the playing fields/ Duke things gets more interesting the more one finds out, maybe you should check it out in more depth."

A bore?

For you perhaps because Eton is out of your reach like the post immediately above suggests.

Take another look at the title of this thread and you?ll see this is a specific ETON thread so I don?t think it is a bore to others.

"pete in the context of the wildly intemperate language used by you in many of your posts including quite revoltingly scatalogical metaphors, any comments are probably fair. Sorry, there is no justification for you to be so offensive at all, to anyone and that includes me."

Glad you realise this, Yellowstone. But I don?t honestly see much difference between an incontinent drivel and a diarrhoea ? both are uncontrollable natural discharges except they come from opposite ends. It?s fair comment like you said unless you want to tell me now, ?My end is holier than thou??

As for justification in my intemperate language, believe me, it?s only a mild response to your declared statement that I?m meant to be patronized.