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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Can they do this?

23 replies

missismac · 23/05/2011 19:19

My SIL tells me that at my Nephews school (state - boys) they have to have hair a certain length. not less than 1" or more than 2" - or something like that. Are they allowed to dictate students hair length? Doesn't it infringe on human rights or something?

She's concerned because DN2 has always worn his hair shoulder length and will be going there in a couple of years.

OP posts:

TalkinPeace2 · 23/05/2011 19:23

Boys schools normally can
and girls schools can demand that it is tied back

at DDs school, the boys are allowed it long as the school is mixed but they ALL have to tie it back for PE and science

Goblinchild · 23/05/2011 19:23

Boys and girls in our local schools are allowed to have hair of any length they choose, but if long it must be tied back or under control. To make rules for only one sex would be discriminatory.
Don't know how it works in an all-boys school though.

cat64 · 23/05/2011 19:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

ohfuckohfuckohfuckduck · 23/05/2011 19:34

AT my DS's school the rule was that hair couldn't touch their collar.

Since his hair was curly it never touched his collar.

He looked like a reject from the hair bear bunch but he got away with it, as his hair didn't touch the bottom of his collar.

thesurgeonsmate · 23/05/2011 19:37

Which human right did you have in mind?

Goblinchild · 23/05/2011 19:39

You might need this OP, if you plan on quoting Human Rights.
www.unicef.org/rightsite/files/little_book_rights.pdf

thisisyesterday · 23/05/2011 19:42

human rights??? seriously??

ohfuckohfuckohfuckduck · 23/05/2011 19:46

BTW If you send your child to a school you agree to abide by the rules of the school.

Your SIL should know the rules over hair length.

As to human rights - what right would he be enforcing? Article 14 of the ECHR is discrimination, but since it's a boys only school that doesn't apply.

Original poster

missismac · 23/05/2011 20:04

Doesn't he have the right to chose how long his own hair is, as long as it's not a hazard or danger, & doesn't interfere with others ability to learn I don't really see how they could enforce this under law? But I will confess to being an ignoramus about the appropriate legislation.

SIL doesn't seem too concerned - they may not even be there when the time comes for him to go to that school, but I was aghast that this was considered to be a reasonable dictum by a state school. He's not joining the army FGS.

cat64 - surely a 'smart uniform look' can be achieved without resorting to such draconian measures? Plenty of other schools manage it. The suggestion to 'choose another school' isn't so helpful given the paucity of choice at secondary level that most people seem to experience. I don't think 'choice' has much to do with which state secondary you go to. Certainly not where they are (west London).

OP posts:

zanzibarmum · 23/05/2011 20:14

The human right concerned is the fundamental freedom to look a bit of a mess. I feel so strongly about it that I would take my child out of a disciplined, high performing and caring school into school where they couldn't care less.

Original poster

missismac · 24/05/2011 09:47

Well zanzibarmum, I suspect a strong sarcastic element to your post, and you know what they say about sarcasm? But, to reassure you, his school isn't high performing, or especially caring, and from what SIL says the discipline's OK but nothing special. Oh, and DN is gorgeous and no-one would ever describe him as looking "a bit of a mess" (unless the skinhead look is your particular cup of tea I suppose).

Really, I'm not saying I would or wouldn't make a stand on this issue. I'm not in that position so I don't have to make a choice. I just wondered if a school were allowed under international law to uphold this rule? It seems that no-one knows though?

OP posts:

prh47bridge · 24/05/2011 11:15

No, this is not a breach of the European Convention on Human Rights.

AMumInScotland · 24/05/2011 11:51

If the school has a rule that hair has to be that length, or that they have to wear uniform, or lots of other stuff, then it doesn't infringe his rights. He doesn't have to go to that school if he isn't happy about that rule.

I agree with you that it's silly to have rules about hair length, but there's no rights being infringed.

bidibidi · 24/05/2011 12:33

lol @ Zanzibar.

circular · 24/05/2011 12:44

DD1s school (mixed comp) has a 'no outrageous hair styles or colours' rule, but that could be open to interpretation.
There are some boys with long hair though.
All hair has to be tied back for sport and cookery/science practicals.

I think swim hats are only compulsory for the girls though LOL.

justforthisonepost · 24/05/2011 12:45

A school are indeed allowed under international law to uphold this rule.

If your DN and SIL don't like it, move to a different school.

frogmella666 · 24/05/2011 21:09

my ds has just been excluded from school until after the half term because his hair is too short.
he is in acf and was asked to "shave" his hair so he could take part in the lord mayors parade at the weekend. (he has a grade 1)
he returned to school today (i collapsed so he looked after me yesterday) and was told to go home because he had an " inappropriate hairstyle".
when he got home he explained that the hairstyle that the british army and acf approved of his school saw as a sign of anti social or racist behaviour.
he explained about the acf (so did i on the phone) but he was still sent home he has exams all week but is still not allowed in school.

MmeBlueberry · 24/05/2011 21:20

My boys have to have their hair off their collars. My girls have to have their hair tied back.

To rebel against this is seriously sweating the small stuff.

Original poster

missismac · 24/05/2011 23:18

Hmmm, still doesn't seem right to me.

I guess whether or not it's "small stuff" would depend on the how important their hair was as an expression of individuality to the child faced with the 'haircut' decision. Most of the replies seem to imply that it's not something that would bother most of you.

justforthisonepost I didn't say my DN or SIL felt anything about it one way or another, other than some concern on her part. I think she'd be delighted if he was sent to another school as she didn't get DN1 into the school she wanted - the next closest - due to catchment.

I only asked the question - no need at all for your nasty 'like it or lump it' tone I feel.

OP posts:

Barbarella1964 · 24/05/2011 23:29

My son has fairly long hair and he is 15. My other son has short hair. There are some boys who have long wavy hair in the school and they are asked to put it into a ponytail for cooking, tech work etc. I agree with yourself that as long as they are smart and the hairstyle suits the child it really shouldn't matter. However, schools normally come with a long checklist and contract for the parent and student to sign, and if the HT wants to make an issue of it, they will. If it was me I would ask your son to look at the other students hair length when he next visits the school. Hope this helps!!

AMumInScotland · 25/05/2011 10:01

Oh I'd agree with you that hair is an important expression of individuality - DS has his very long, usually back in a ponytail, and when we looked at secondary schools for him it was an issue, as independent schools usually have rules about it. So it was an important issue, but in terms of us picking a school which had an attitude we could all be OK with, rather than sending him to a school we knew didn't allow it and then trying to force them into changing their rules to suit us, if you see the difference?

In the end he's at a mixed state school which only has a rule about keeping it back for safety. But they have a relatively strict uniform code in other ways, which we've had to "suck up" because that's the way it is and there's a limit to how much we'd allow "freedom of expression" to over-rule getting a good education. He's infringed a couple of rules, been warned, and had to conform rather than being sent home from school and missing classes.

So it comes down to a compromise between what you want, and what you can get - if his hair is a really important issue to DN2, and your SIL supports him in that, they may have to find another school which has different rules which allow it, or else send him anyway and be in a constant battle with the head over it.

maddiemostmerry · 25/05/2011 10:37

My son has wavy longish hair. When he first started school he was told to get a hair cut. He did and it has since grown and not been mentioned again. He does tend to keep it at that inbetween length now though.

I agree about individuality within reason. My son will need an operation on his face when older and likes his hair over his face as people notice his hair but not his face.

I would go for a middle ground, keep some length,let it grow in the summer and have it cut before start of each new term

emilielondon · 25/05/2011 20:42

As a HoY, when parents ask me 'why can't my son have long hair/ very short hair/ a mohican?' I always wonder 'why would you think they can?' Parents don't question the uniform and hair for us is part of the uniform. I do say for them to choose another school if they dislike our policies and we are very explicit and clear about it from day 1 so at least there are no surprises. As a mother, if I didn't like a school's rules or policies, I wouldn't send my child there and yes, I live in London and know all about the difficulty of getting your DC into a so-called 'good' school...

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