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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Is it normal for children to move 'sets' at secondary school?

26 replies

schroeder · 04/05/2011 18:18

My dd 12 has just told me he is being moved from set 2 to set 3 in science. I'm disappointed, but I don't know if this is normal nowadays?

When I was at school I was in the top set all the way through and I can't recall anyone being moved up or down.

I feel he has stagnated since he was about 8 tbh, but I'm not the pushy type I haven't made a fuss. I've comforted myself with the fact I went to a crap 1 room primary, where I learn't mostly country dancing , but I still did well at school.

He is a shy boy lacking in confidence and to go down and confront school would have been mortifying for him.

Anyway,I suppose I want you all to say 'no worries these days kids flit from set to set and it's better for them than struggling to do work that's too hard for him' (trouble is, I don't think it is too hard for him he's such a clever boy)

OP posts:

celticlassie · 04/05/2011 18:22

We tend to move kids up and down at the end / beginning of a year if they're struggling or excelling. I would get in touch with the school and find out why he's being moved and what the implications are. Will he still be able to sit the same exams / achieve the same grades?

EvilTwins · 04/05/2011 18:23

It's fairly common IME, yes, and could have happened for a number of reasons. If he's shy, then it might have been felt that he would do better being at the top of set 3 than near the bottom of set 2. I would imagine that he will be moved back up if set 3 is found to not be a better place for him.

Nothing at all to stop you from phoning the head of science at the school to ask what the reason is - no need to "confront" - sometimes you have to trust that the school has the child's best interests at heart.

Original poster

schroeder · 04/05/2011 18:29

Oh the 'confronting' thing was about back in primary, was quite a small school making it hard to be discrete. At the secondary I'm happy I could sneak under his Mum-dar .

I like the idea of him being at the top of his set, that does make me feel a bit better. It's so frustrating and sad to see so much potential in your child and him just not have the confidence to fulfil it.

OP posts:

bigTillyMint · 04/05/2011 18:32

Maybe they based it on test / continuous assessment scores?

Why don't you ask? And ask if there's anything you can do at home to support him?

Maryz · 04/05/2011 18:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

wotss · 04/05/2011 19:29

If there's movement at all between sets, it's probably a good sign - it should mean they are tracking the students and moving them where appropriate.

Depending on the make-up of that particular year it may also be the case that - for instance - there is a big ability gap between set 1 & set 2 but less of a gap between set 2 & set 3. (Or vice versa, obviously).

Definitely worth finding out the details, from a position of wanting to support your son.

cat64 · 04/05/2011 19:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Loshad · 04/05/2011 20:24

we have just moved about 8 year 7 students in science. We don't do it lightly at all - we use all test scores to date, plus APP, plus discussions with the teachers involved. In our case for a couple of the students it had become really clear that they were much better at science than their entry scores had suggested, and they were a long way ahead of their current sets. Often (but not always) in order for someone to move up, someone has to move down, and again that is done on an evidenced basis, not merely "oh he's quiet put him down"
As cat says it is highly unlikley that the top 30 on entry will still be the top 30 5 years later and so set movement as a principle is a good thing - it tells you the school know how each student is progressing, and it keeps a lot of their students on their toes - my top set y9 are certainly motivated to work hard by the fact there are some students in set 2 desperate to take their place

bruffin · 04/05/2011 20:57

DS got moived down for both french and german from top set last term in year 8 on my request and he was a lot happier. One of the reasons it worked was the teacher for top set really wasn't very good at controlling the class and the teacher for class 2 was much better.

DD got moved up to top set for maths beginning of yr8. It was where she should have been, but I didn't say anything but told her she had to prove herself, which she did by getting top marks in her class and being enthusiastic.

bitsyandbetty · 08/05/2011 11:46

When I was at school you could always move up and down. It would be crazy for an 11 year old to be expected to stay in the same set all the way through. Children develop at different stages. I would complain if sets were not reassessed at least annually.

Littlemamamia · 04/01/2012 14:16

Aibu to be disappointed that my ds is I middle set for Maths. I was hoping for top. He is y7. I haven't said anything to him by the way.

TalkinPeace2 · 04/01/2012 15:05

at my kids school
in year 7 the sets are checked and shuffled three times in the first term and twice a term after that
in year 8 they are shuffled at the end of each term
same in year 7

children progress and mature at different rates
I would worry about a school that did not take that into account

all the children who are moved down have meetings with their tutors to explain why and often when they find out who has moved up in their stead it makes more sense to them than it does to parents isolated from the cohort dynamic

TalkinPeace2 · 04/01/2012 15:06

littlemamamia
YABU unless you have met every child in the cohort and know how they all are at maths

mummytime · 04/01/2012 15:38

My son moved up Maths set at the beginning of this year (11), but some people in his set moved down from set 3 to set 7. Set 7 is a new set for pupils on the C/D borderline, made up of people from sets 3 and 4.
Also set number can be very variable. I know schools which have 3 sets for English and Maths, and my DCs have at least 6 (in two halves of the year).
If you are concerned talk to the teachers, and find out what consequences it has.

crazymum53 · 04/01/2012 16:45

Surely this depends on which level each child is working towards. At dds school in Y7 Set 1 (Higher) is working towards level 6+ whereas sets 2 and 3 (Intermediate) are fairly close together working towards level 5. Set 4 (Foundation) is for children who are level 4 and below. Therefore both set 2 and 3 are at the age-expected level for Y7. Your child's Science teacher should be able to provide information about their NC level. Hope this helps

wordfactory · 04/01/2012 16:49

I'm a firm believer in rigorous and flexible setting.
When done correctly it helps al pupils reach their potential.

I would as a parent expect a discussion about any movement however.

TalkinPeace2 · 04/01/2012 16:58

my kids school has cohorts of nearly 300
there are two bands each split into 4, 5 or 6 sets depending on the subject
when DD talks about friends who have been moved down, neither she nor they seem to have been surprised.
It is sold as a constructive thing that may be reversed depending on progress later
as it should

Littlemamamia · 04/01/2012 18:09

Ok just when I was at school we stayed in the sets we were put in. I was middle set for Maths which meant the highest I could achieve at gcse was a c. Ds seems much better at Maths than I ever was and I was hoping he would do better than me.

lljkk · 04/01/2012 18:27

It is supposed to be normal at local high school, I was told as much when we toured & have heard several stories of people's children moving sets mid-term in recent years. I think it's a very good thing and moving a set "down" can be about instilling confidence as much as anything, because the ability levels overlap so much, definitely can be a very good thing to move "down". 2 of my children work better being top rather than bottom (takes the pressure off so then they really shine), the other child works better being bottom rather than top (rises well to challenges), really depends on personality.

Loshad · 05/01/2012 22:58

littlemamamia - that depends on the school, at a good one even quite am apparently low set may have high aspirations. We split the year into halves - so approx 150 students/half. I have set 4 in one half so kids ranked 90-120 out of the 150. Their targets are all As and Bs at GCSE, I will cover all higher level stuff, some of them should get A*s if they keep working as hard. (some will get Cs if they keep working at their current not hard level). Non selective school btw.

Foxinsocks · 05/01/2012 23:06

Dd is in yr7 - back to school today and lots of children have been moved up and down the sets.

maypole1 · 05/01/2012 23:46

My son is being moved sets but the head of year hold a meeting with the teacher they already have the set teacher their moving to and the parents they shouldn't just moved your son with out some dissuasion first

Littlemamamia · 06/01/2012 07:05

Well I asked my ds about it and he says they sometimes move the sets at Easter and sometimes at end of y7. I have told him its probably a good thing to be in middle set so he has something to aim for. He probably will work well at higher end of middle group rather than lower end of higher group.

Loshad you mentioned ranking. Do you keen that in subjects dc are ranked in order and dc ranked no 1 is the best in yr. wow I didn't really know this. Why don't teachers tell us parents. It would be interesting to know.

Moominmammacat · 06/01/2012 09:00

My DS was moved from triple science to double for getting BBC in Unit One. Am delighted, much less work and not continuing with science at A level. Social stigma for him though ...

DeWe · 06/01/2012 09:55

I'd be much more worried about a school who didn't move between sets.

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