New Secondaries for Richmond Borough?

[BayJay]

Richmond Council recently published a White Paper outlining plans for Secondary education in the borough (cabnet.richmond.gov.uk/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=23719). They want new 6th forms in every school, and would need to decrease current Yr7 intakes to accomodate that. To offset those decreases they are talking about creating two new secondary schools. One of those new schools would be a Roman Catholic school.

The Roman Catholic community in the borough are currently disadvantaged by the "link" system (www.st-marys.richmond.sch.uk/Newsletter%20Link%20letter%20for%202011%20links%20(2).pdf). Because the Catholic primaries are not linked to any secondaries in the borough, their children tend to go to a combination of out-of-borough Catholic secondaries (which are mostly rated as Outstanding), grammar schools and private schools, though some of the girls do go to Waldegrave, which is not part of the link system. Note that there is no reason, in principle, why the Catholic Secondaries couldn't be linked to local community schools, but because many of their children have other options, they simply don't meet the "25% rule" required to form a link. (See an example set of transfer figures at www.st-james.richmond.sch.uk/Admin/Uploads/Docs/StJamesSchool_Parents_NewsLetter_270910.pdf).

This raises several questions in my mind:

1. Does the problem necessarily need to be solved by providing a Catholic Secondary, or are there alternative solutions that would benefit the community as a whole (e.g. reforming the link system)?
2. Does the majority of the Catholic community specifically want to be educated separately from the rest of us, or is it the case that, like everyone else, they simply want an outstanding education for their children, and find that the Catholic route is often the best way of achieving that?
3. If Catholics had more options for transferring to outstanding community schools locally (as many already do, to Waldegrave), would they choose those options over travelling to a single-faith school in a neighbouring borough?
4. I accept that there will always be very religious people who want to segregate themselves, but would I be right in asserting that there are also large numbers of Catholics who would be happy to attend community schools, provided that gave them the same level of academic excellence that can be found in many Catholic options?
5. If a new Catholic secondary school is created, it is likely to have an entrance policy that requires a priest's reference (as per the majority of existing Catholic schools). How do people feel about that?
6. If a state-funded Catholic School is created in the borough, would non-Catholic parents also like the option of sending their children there, provided they weren't barred by the admission system?

I'd be interested to hear your opinions!

Corlan - I remember Teddington Boys too and I think the situation then was rather different.....couldn't you essentially choose the school you wanted. And yes I understand that girls allegedly to better in single sex schools but what then do we do with the boys? I just think its a logical continuation of the inclusive access arguement to extend it to gender.

Kewcumber - yes I think it was definitely failing but I'm not sure if that was after it had merged with another local school and taken on the Christs mantel and the broad Christian status (back in the mid-70's). And yes, not all schools are linked in the borough. A strange system to say the least but one that can be fought succesfully with the schools adjudicator!

Kewcumber - I appreciate your point, I hadn't meant to imply that it was a problem peculiar to only catholic primary schools, just that the initial thread was realting to that. The link system does appear to be problematic and should be considered along with the other strings of the arguement.

I thought it was jointly run by CofE AND Catholics after the merger in the 70's when the school was failing I gater the catholic management team withdrew and submitted a plan to clsoe the school which was refused by the Education minirter when CofE took the running over.

Not a great advert for Catholic secondary! The Cathlic camp keep very quiet about ti!

There is mixed covert intelligence about whether the cathlic church have a possible site and the money to build so it may all be moot point anyway.

I don't know the details of what happened in the 70's so I'll bow to your knowledge on that . However, I didn't think it was under catholic management when it tried to close a few years ago.
There are plenty of under performing Catholic secondary schools and i don't think they promote themselves as being the great provider of first class education. In fact the local priests promote attendence at a catholic school, irrelevant of Ofsted rankings etc.
The real debate is about whether the borough should direct funding to a school that limits access to children based on religion.....and I think it should be logically extended to gender also.
Interesting times.......

I think Sacred Heart in Teddington did manage to get a link to Teddington School a couple of years ago. I believe it was hard work, but the council had to see sense in the end that one of the closest primaries wasn't getting pupils into secondary, because of the link system.

Many problems might be solved in the area if Waldegrave became mixed. The suggestion in the Borough consultation document for federated sixth forms is interesting though. Since Teddington, and presumably Orleans don't have the physical space for any expansion, that might be workable.

the link system is rubbish (as I said we don't have one and normal state primary not religious) and I don't understand teh point of it. Can anyone explain why Richmond use it rather than normal admission policies that other boroughs have?

I think it is just a really really old system that lots of people try to hang on to because it helped ensure that children on the fringes of catchment to the "better" secondaries had some chance of getting in. Everyone acknowledges it is rubbish, but there is massive resistance in some vocal quarters to getting rid. With ever shrinking catchment areas though, the link system still isn't enough to guarantee a place.

If they used the admissions system that other boroughs use then that would mean that children in North Kingston (who aren't at St Paul's) would be able to get into Teddington on distance, via the footbridge. I heard Richmond were very concerned that this would leave Grey Court undersubscribed. I'm sure this isnt the only reason they stick to this system though. Is the link system even legal? It does discriminate against children not at certain primaries and practically impossible to get in from neighbouring boroughs. Not sure this will be relevant anymore when the new secondary is built in N. Kingston.

A lot depends on what type of Catholic school it is going to be. If it is a Voluntary Aided school (like all other local Catholic schools) then the church would only need to fund 10% of the capital (building) costs, and the general taxpayer would fund the rest. The taxpayer would also cover 100% of the running costs, and yet would have no say in the school's admission's policy. If that policy followed the pattern of other VA schools, then it would prioritise out-of-borough catholics over in-borough non-catholics, so could conceivably become a net importer of pupils.

On the other hand, if it is an Academy, then current rules state that at least 50% of the admissions would need to be open (i.e. non faith-based). Would that make it less controversial?

Note that all faith schools have an opt-out of equalities legislation when it comes to recruitment. For example, they could refuse to employ somebody who is non-catholic, gay, or divorced. They also set their own RE syllabus, which is not inspected by Ofsted. What do people think about that?

Was under the impression that the land was owned by the catholic schools and that the government footed the bill for the actual build costs....can anyone verify that? I think its quite important.

Don't see why the taxpayer shouldn't pay for 100% of the running costs - they do in every school. And these children will be educated somewhere so the cost needs to be met. My taxes pay for Waldegrave and I don't have the option to send my son there. (Perhaps the 2nd secondary school could just be for boys?)

Academy status could be interesting......run along similar lines to Christs admissions presumably?

Historically, voluntary aided schools have been built on church land and the buildings have been owned by the church. Ongoing capital (maintenance etc) costs are shared at a ratio of 90:10 between the local authority and the church. In reality, the church's contribution is largely covered by a levy on parents of children at VA schools. At my own dc's VA school, this is about £45 per year, per child. The levy is officially voluntary, and so is no longer allowed to be mentioned as part of the admissions procedure, but I'm not aware of any regulation that prevents schools from omitting to mention that it is voluntary once their children are at the school. Our own payment letter is certainly very strongly worded to imply an obligation.

As regards the new Catholic school, it remains to be seen who will purchase the land. As far as I'm aware, the Catholic church does not own an obvious site at present. Land clearly doesn't come cheap in this area, so it will be interesting to see what the proposals are.

Sorry Innertiger, I forgot to answer your question about Christs. That is a Voluntary Aided Church of England school, rather than an Academy. Interestingly, it used to be a joint Catholic/CofE school, but the Catholic church withdrew from the arrangement in 1997. In common with most CofE VA schools, it reserves a proportion of its places for churchgoers in this case about 60%, with the remaining places being left "open". Within the churchgoing, or "foundation" places, highest priority goes to CofE families, and subsequently to a wider category of Christians, which includes Catholics.

Catholic VA schools do not generally provide a proportion of open spaces. Schools converting to academy status in future will be allowed to keep their existing admissions arrangements. With regard to new academies, the government originally stated that they would have to "admit 50 per cent of their pupils without reference to faith" but having just searched for that phrase using google I see that it has recently been deleted from the online documentation. I have heard that it is under negotiation, and it is certainly something to keep an eye on!

Here is the briefing paper produced by the Richmond Inclusive Schools Campaign laying out the case for preferring a fully inclusive new school to a Catholic one. I'd be interested in everyone's thoughts.

Bayjay- thanks for that. I think the percentage of children attending schools out of borough (and I assume private schools within the borough) has dropped in recent years, I seem to remember it was about 33% a few years ago. I live in the borough and I agree that if they are thinking about a new secondary they should only consider a school which is inclusive to all. I remember the old Teddington boys' school, so if they were building a new school perhaps a boys only one may be useful? Think the council should prioritise sixth form at existing secondaries as the current arrangements are not helpful for students in the south of the borough.

I am a practising Catholic and we moved our children from local catholic schools to private non-catholic schools so I follow this thread with interest.

St Paul's in North Kingston is not the only school to have a link with Richmond schools, St Agatha's in North Kingston already has an agreement with Gumley which guarantees places for pupils applying from the Southwark diocese, I believe that 17 places at Gumley were given to St Agatha's girls this year.

Catholic primaries are under no obligation to link to their nearest catholic secondary, St Pauls in Thames Ditton is linked to Saleasians in Chertsey - which is a some distance away. If a new catholic school is built in Richmond schools like St Pauls may try and change links as the new school will be considerably closer.

For anyone with views on the provision of 6th Forms, there is still time to respond to the council's consultation. The deadline is May 6th.

I'd be interested to know how many Richmond parents have heard about this consultation via their schools? It began just before Easter, so it hasn't made it into our school newletter yet. I'm curious to see if it appears this week. In the meantime, I've been spreading the word, because I think it's important that people have the chance to express their views over this sort of thing.

I understood Catholic primaries in Richmond do not 'refuse' to link up with Richmond secondaries. I thought the reason that they do not have a link is because they don't send enough pupils to a Richmond secondary to create/maintain a link with a secondary as so many pupils transfer to Catholic secondaries out of the borough... except Sacred Heart that links with Teddington, but I thought that they had an appeal for that as they couldn't get pupils admitted in the first instance to establish a link. Is that correct?

There are several out of borough primaries that have currently link with Richmond secondaries:

Grey Court - Fernhill, Latchmere, St Luke's (Kingston schools)
Hampton Academy - Forge Lane, Oriel (Hounslow schools)
Orleans Park - Ivybridge, The Blue Primary, Worple (Hounslow schools)
Richmond Park Academy - Alton (Wandsworth), Brackenbury, St Paul's, St John's (Hammersmith and Fulham)
Teddington - St Paul's (Kingston)

Has anyone worked out what Richmond primaries do not have a link to a Richmond secondary? Is it just the Catholic primary schools then?

I think Marshgate and Kew Riverside may also have no link school?

Cheers h20hno! I'm going to sit down and work it out! :)

Having just worked it out from the admissions booklet currently published on the Richmond Council website, it would appear that the following Richmond primaries do not have current links to any Richmond secondary:

Kew Riverside, Kew
Marshgate, Richmond
St Edmund's, Whitton
St Elizabeth's, Richmond
St James', Twickenham
St Osmund's, Barnes
Vineyard, Richmond

Could change when they publish the 2012 booklet this year.

(Makes mental note to think about taking up a hobby of some sort! )

Cat2405, you are correct that Sacred Heart gained a lik to Teddington by appealing to the Schools Adjudicator. The Adjudicator said that the lack of a link to a local school discriminated against the "small but significant minority" of pupils at Sacred Heart who were not Catholic, because they would not be able to get into Catholic secondaries, or a local school.

You might think that, based on that judgement, the Council would have subsequently created links for all of the Catholic primaries, but that has not been done, and the Catholic primaries have presumably not asked for links, because the adjudicator's judgement would have backed up their case if they had.

The implication from the Adjudicator's report is that many non-Catholic children who find themselves at Catholic primaries (presumably mostly through in-year transfers as they'd be unlikely to get into Reception) find it necessary to transfer (again?) to non-Catholic schools before they apply to Secondary school.

Theoretically, that may explain why the highly oversubscribed St James' RC Primary in Twickenham only had 78 pupils transferring from Year 6 last Summer, when they have a capacity of 90 (i.e. they are 3-form entry). Does anyone have any insight on that? Is such a reduction in numbers typical of all local primary schools or peculiar to this one?

Bayjay thanks for posting this - I think it's really important people at aware of debate and if they have questions or points they need to raise try to speak to their councillor as there seems to be a lot of rumour etc.

St James's often has fewer pupils than the maximum in KS2, i believe because pupils leave (a high turnover due to the high numbers of non British at the school who return home) and there is no waiting list - because there is no clear secondary school. Some boys are actively withdrawn at year 5 to attend primaries near Teddington School - nb eldest boys so the sibling link then covers the others.

I had heard that the council are abolishing the link system. Does anyone know anything about this?

oh i hope so, it is ridiculous. keep us posted.