New Secondaries for Richmond Borough?

[BayJay]

Richmond Council recently published a White Paper outlining plans for Secondary education in the borough (cabnet.richmond.gov.uk/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=23719). They want new 6th forms in every school, and would need to decrease current Yr7 intakes to accomodate that. To offset those decreases they are talking about creating two new secondary schools. One of those new schools would be a Roman Catholic school.

The Roman Catholic community in the borough are currently disadvantaged by the "link" system (www.st-marys.richmond.sch.uk/Newsletter%20Link%20letter%20for%202011%20links%20(2).pdf). Because the Catholic primaries are not linked to any secondaries in the borough, their children tend to go to a combination of out-of-borough Catholic secondaries (which are mostly rated as Outstanding), grammar schools and private schools, though some of the girls do go to Waldegrave, which is not part of the link system. Note that there is no reason, in principle, why the Catholic Secondaries couldn't be linked to local community schools, but because many of their children have other options, they simply don't meet the "25% rule" required to form a link. (See an example set of transfer figures at www.st-james.richmond.sch.uk/Admin/Uploads/Docs/StJamesSchool_Parents_NewsLetter_270910.pdf).

This raises several questions in my mind:

1. Does the problem necessarily need to be solved by providing a Catholic Secondary, or are there alternative solutions that would benefit the community as a whole (e.g. reforming the link system)?
   
2. Does the majority of the Catholic community specifically want to be educated separately from the rest of us, or is it the case that, like everyone else, they simply want an outstanding education for their children, and find that the Catholic route is often the best way of achieving that?
   
3. If Catholics had more options for transferring to outstanding community schools locally (as many already do, to Waldegrave), would they choose those options over travelling to a single-faith school in a neighbouring borough?
   
4. I accept that there will always be very religious people who want to segregate themselves, but would I be right in asserting that there are also large numbers of Catholics who would be happy to attend community schools, provided that gave them the same level of academic excellence that can be found in many Catholic options?
   
5. If a new Catholic secondary school is created, it is likely to have an entrance policy that requires a priest's reference (as per the majority of existing Catholic schools). How do people feel about that?
   
6. If a state-funded Catholic School is created in the borough, would non-Catholic parents also like the option of sending their children there, provided they weren't barred by the admission system?
   
   I'd be interested to hear your opinions!

[deadbeatdad]

Littlemissmuppet stop hectoring and creating mischief (your own words). You say you want an inclusive school when really you mean a secular school.
Dingdongbell is quite clear: if there is a Catholic secondary school she will send her DC there - she pays her taxes just as much as anyone and she has the right.

Besides I have seen no evidence on this thread to suggest that a Catholic school would not be as representative of the local area as a community school in terms of class, social status, ethnic minority: if anything one could suggest reasons why the Catholic school might be more "inclusive" than the community school in leafy Richmond.

[BayJay]

There is a parallel thread to this one, which I hope everyone who has posted here today, or has an interest in this subject, will go and read.

The Richmond Inclusive School Campaign are defining inclusivity as non-discrimination on grounds of religion. They are also arguing for reform of the link system, which currently discriminates against a number of primary schools, including, but not limited to, Catholic primary schools. In my view the council urgently need to address the link system issues, and they are due to be reviewed by the Admission Forum this month so anyone who has strong opinions on that should contact either their own councillor, or one of the councillors on the committee.

There are many people who feel that Waldegrave has a detrimental effect on local admissions, and I have heard some people calling for the new Clifden Rd school to be a boys' school to compensate for that. If and when the council do actually hold a full consultation on this issue, then people will undoubtedly let them know how they feel on that.

If you read the other thread, you will see some discussion about the possibility of a Catholic Academy, which would have 50:50 admissions. That would go halfway to satisfying the wording of the RISC petition, and give the Catholic community the local Catholic option that they are asking for too. Dingdongbell, I would be interested in your views, and the views of other local Catholics, on that idea.

[BayJay]

dingdongbell, sorry, I also meant to address your point about distance. In my view distance should be the only criteria on which admissions should be decided. Councils should then deal with the associated housing issues through its planning policies by making sure that affordable housing is well distributed throughout the borough, including in areas close to good schools.

Where there are pockets of deprivation within the borough, the coalition government's Pupil Premium policy should also help.

[dindongbell]

Hi Bayjay. Yes a Catholic Academy with 50:50 admissions sounds like a good compromise. Catholic parents will have some choice on the continuation of their child's education within their own borough then. Not sure how many people from either side would go for it though. Cost of the site development will always be a factor. The council massively overspent on Teddington school (were the architect fees really £2m?). Also interested to see comments regarding ring fencing of school places in Richmond borough for residents. I have friends (non catholic) whose children can't get into their local secondary yet children from Kingston do. What are your thoughts?

[BayJay]

The Greenwich Judgement, 1989, prevents ring fencing at borough boundaries. That was the main reason for the council introducing the linked school policy in the first place. I would provide a link for it, but I haven't found a really good one yet. However, if you google Greenwich Judgement you can find information about it.

[LittleMrsMuppet]

Why would it mean being a hypocrite not to back a Catholic secondary school campaign? As a Catholic I'm not sure why I'm not allowed to put the needs of the wider community ahead of my own. I might even send my own children to this school (should it be created) as I pay my taxes too. Doesn't mean I think it was wise spending by the council though. A Catholic school is an expensive luxury that won't help the anticipated problem of a shortage of community places across the borough.

deadbeatdad - you are intentionally missing my point. I was trying to emphasise how peculiar I found dindongbell's reasoning. And whilst I'd entirely agree that leafy Richmond community schools are far from "inclusive" when compared to the national average, they do still have a higher free-school-meal percentage than the LBRuT Catholic schools. Read into that what you will. And no, I don't want all schools to be secular. I've already mentioned that I'm Catholic myself. I'm in favour of Catholic schools, I just dislike their admissions policies.

The saddest thing is that there's now a real anti-Catholic feeling across the borough. It really was quite unnecessary and could have been avoided if the council had bothered to properly consult the populace before making such a big decision.

DinDongBell - how do I feel about Waldegrave? I'd be wary of making it co-ed. It's currently a successful school, and the current staff are experienced with girls, so its excellence might not carry through if it was co-ed. Should there be a boys equivalent? Yes if it's what people actually want. And if there's any money left... Should they abolish the link system? Yes. Unreservedly. It's ridiculous! Should there be a lottery? I wouldn't support one, no, for the reasons I've already given.

[LittleMrsMuppet]

BayJay - you seem to be a font of all knowledge, so I'm wondering if you can answer my question? Faith schools ring fence along Parish boundary lines. Does the Greenwich Judgement not apply to them?

[BayJay]

No, the Greenwich Judgement only refers to Borough boundaries. Other geographical boundaries can legitimately be used in admissions systems. That is why Sacred Heart primary school was able to <a class="break-all" href="http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20110218204125/www.schoolsadjudicator.gov.uk/upload/ADA001083%20-Teddington.doc" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">succesfully argue for a link to Teddington School using ward boundaries. If parents at other Catholic primary schools want links to local community schools then they should let their councillors know and quote the Sacred Heart judgement as evidence that the current Linked School policy is a bad policy. The Schools Adjudicator was quite scathing about the method used to establish links.

p.s. I'm off to the cinema this evening, so will have to continue this discussion tomorrow.

[BayJay]

Dindongbell, just belatedly picking up on your point about funding [dindongbell Tue 20-Sep-11 17:16:02], if the proposed school is Voluntary Aided, then the church would only be required to contribute 10% of the capital costs (and none of the running costs). As the council has bought the land, and there is already a viable school building on it, those capital costs are likely to be minimal. Many people may consider them worth writing off in the interests of community cohesion.

[BayJay]

For those of you reading this thread who are Catholic, I am interested in your views on the increasingly competitive admission criteria that are being used by some of the more popular Catholic Secondaries. For example, here is a link to the London Oratory's Admission Criteria. They use a points system which takes into account regularity of mass attendance, baptism date, and additional service to the church. Do you think people feel under pressure to change their behaviour in order to compete with other families for places. In your experience, what effect does this have on your community?

[h2ohno]

Bay Jay - As a Catholic i think you are coming across more like a reporter than a parent.

[deadbeatdad]

Jay if it is a catholic school surely it should be for practising Catholics - not only for the benefit of the Catholic school but also for the community schools. I am not sure what the problem is you are seeking to understand/report

[dindongbell]

Bayjay re the funding issue, so if the proposed school is 50:50 admissions and a Catholic Academy would that mean the council would meet all costs? Would the RC still have to contribute 10%? Do you think that would be an acceptable comprise for most of the RISC? Apart from the whole catholic secondary question, are there plans for any more secondary schools in the borough? Given the increasing birth rate and bulge classes in primary, one new school won't be enough anyway.

[BayJay]

h20hno/deadbeatdad, I'm not a reporter, and I am a local mum. I'm genuinely interested in what people think, and see this as a space for people to chat across the divide and understand each other's point of view. My own children go to a Church of England VA school in Twickenham, and I know that as the admission criteria have become stricter over recent years people have changed their behaviour in order to meet the new criteria. Many people find that controversial, and the Church of England is taking steps nationally to open its admission policies so that all parents have the opportunity to choose their schools if they wish to, no matter what their religious background. The Catholic church has so far not moved in that direction, but if it were to consent to a new Academy on this site, then that would set a precedent. Personally I find that interesting, and wonder what local Catholics think of the idea.

[BayJay]

dindongbell, I don't speak for RISC, so I don't know what percentage of its supporters would be happy with an Academy. My best guess is that some would and some wouldn't. I think its worth raising awareness of the possibility among people on both sides of the debate so that people can start to consider it ahead of any consultation that might take place.

The 10% of capital funding obligation is only required for Voluntary Aided Schools. Academies have a different funding model. If the Catholic church wanted to 'sponsor' an academy then it would presumably need to make a financial contribution, but I think that would be arranged at a local level. If anyone knows more about that, then perhaps they can dive in with some references.

Just out of interest, here is a BBC link to an article about a newly opened Faith Academy, in this case jointly sponsored by the Church of England and Catholic Church.

[BayJay]

Just following on from my previous post, here is a link to the Dept of Education's information about Academy Funding. However, it is focussed on schools converting to academy status, rather than new academies.

I haven't looked into it in depth, but essentially each academy has its own unique funding agreement depending on its circumstances, and is negotiated between local authorities and academy sponsors. Here are some examples.

In last week's council debate, Councillor Hodgins (the final speaker) referred to the fact that a Voluntary Aided model would be cost effective for the borough, but there is no evidence that any comparision has been done with a potential academy model.

[BayJay]

There is some news about the Linked School Policy. The minutes for last night's Admission Forum meeting have been published. The forum is recommending to the council that it consults the public on removal of the Linked School Policy for 2013/2014 entry to Grey Court, Orleans Park and Teddington.

[LittleMrsMuppet]

BayJay, in answer to your question about admissions policies. In my own parish, we are sufficiently far from the Oratory that very few people even consider it. In fairness, I'd say that the ones that do probably are very useful to the community. Whatever their true motive, it's always good to have volunteers to do those much needed jobs that most people can't be bothered to do.

Its hard to judge how helpful it is to have those families that only turn up for the crucial 6 months before school applications and whilst their children prepare for their sacraments. How people choose to follow their own faith is entirely their own business, but it's interesting that many of these "seasonal" churchgoers that I know have put their names to the petition that is calling for the Catholic school.

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet is the fact that the Clifden site is very close to both St Mark's and Gumley House. Both of these schools have excellent sixth forms. Unless the new school is going to provide one it is going to be at a significant disadvantage. If it does get a sixth form, the council are going to have to be absolutely sure they can deliver one to all the other Borough Secondaries; otherwise I imagine we haven't seen anything yet in terms of opposition to this school.

[BayJay]

LittleMrsMuppet, good point about 6th Forms.

Another thing that is interesting, is that the original press release about the purchase of the Clifden Site talked of creating a primary school as well as a secondary school on the site. Everyone has been focussing on the secondary school issue, but its not clear what type of school the primary will be. Central Twickenham desperately needs more Community primary places, but it would seem strange to consider a community primary school on the same site as a Catholic secondary school. It would also seem to be a missed opportunity for an all-through school.

[BayJay]

LittleMrsMuppet, sorry, I also meant to respond to your point about admissions. I picked out the Oratory because it is an extreme example of an admission system that has become increasingly prescriptive as the school has become more popular. Other local Voluntary Aided schools' policies (CofE as well as Catholic) may not be so extreme, but they too have gradually become more complicated. It has become a national pastime to critically evaluate other people's motivations for going to church, which I think is bad for our society. I realise that the churches benefit from the increased attendance, but at what price? It seems to me that if more faith schools had inclusive admissions, so that people could choose them for their own personal reasons (whatever those may be), then a lot of sniping could be avoided.

[LittleMrsMuppet]

BayJay - I can only agree. I found simply asking for baptism awkward. Was the priest thinking I was only doing it because I was a middle-class Mum who wanted to send my child to the attached school? It even made me question my own motivation.

A central part of Jesus' teachings is that we shouldn't judge others. Yet, that's exactly what the current school admissions make us do. It's so desperately unChristian, isn't it?

[BayJay]

unChristian, unHumanist, unMuslim, unJewish ..... and just generally unpleasant.

[BayJay]

Just adding a link to the latest local press coverage about the Catholic School debate.

[Elibean]

Many, many upset parents at dd's primary (SW13) at prospect of a selective Catholic secondary in Richmond - am reading to try and educate myself and catch up.

BayJay, you make a lot of sense!

[Almanzo]

Just wanted to add my thanks to Bayjay for her/his efforts here. I first heard about this on Mumsnet and have since been following with interest.
Some great impassioned arguments against the Catholic school in the comments after that article.
(Atheist mum with three children who lives a few minutes from the Clifden Rd site!)