Options - DS advised to take resistant materials rather than history! Why?

[ptangyangkipperbang]

DS1 had his options interview last week. He was pretty clear that apart from the compulsary subjects he would choose:
Spanish
History
Geography
Catering (he loves cooking and has to take a technology subject because that's what the school specialises in)

DH went to the interview with him and said they'd been advised to drop history or geography and take resistant materials instead. Their reasoning was that taking two humanities would be hard work with lots of essays!

I suspect that the real reason is that DS would already be covering the International Bacc subjects and another technology subject may boost the schools uptake of the school specialism and help them achieve some sort of target. Could this be right?

I feel really let down by the school because I was confident that they'd give correct advice and they'd want the best for DS - please advise!

Hi there, you may want to post on this thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/1129749-Year-9-choosing-options-how-is-it-going

DS1's option evening is on the 9th Feb

Two humanities probably will be hard work with lots of essays. Is he good at organising his time, writing essays and meeting deadlines? I don't think they've necessarily given the advice with sinister reasons.

Why is it just about the easier options though? If he's willing to put the work in, then he'll manage. What if somebody's two favourite subjects were history and geography?

Personally, I'd tell the teacher to butt out. It's your DS's life and future, it's his choice, not the choice taken from some arbitrary list of rules.

Grrrrr.

You mean the English bacc subjects? IB is something v different (a diploma in 6 subjects taken at the end if 6th form).

If he wants to do hist and geog then push for it and let him. 2 humanities is hard but RM is a lot of coursework too and very intensive in lessons preparing the project etc. If he retains info well and has good exam technique then he may be better doing 2 humanities - I know I would be - but school will know his capabilities/strengths/weaknesses.

Who was his "options interview" with? At our school all staff do some options interviews. At the same time all staff are fighting for the courses/their departments and ultimately their jobs.

If not enough students opt for a particular subject then that subject does not run.

My son would rather gouge out his own eyeballs than take a tech subject. Presumably your son has expressed some interest in RMat?

Cynic? Me?

I feel that my advice might be a bit "old hat" as my ds is now in year 12 but I'm going to post anyway in case it is helpful.

Ds chose French, History, Geography and Music for his GCSE options subjects. He is now taking English Lit, History, Geography and Music for his A levels. He is also doing the Welsh bacc. He has enjoyed History so much that he has chosen it for his degree subject. He had quite a bit of work on for GCSE but it has stood him in good stead as he worked hard, got good results and is now aiming high for his uni choice.

Dd is in year 11 and chose German, Art, RE and Business Studies as GCSE options. She has just chosen her A level subjects and I feel it has been a bit harder as she chose subjects for GCSE that she can't continue at A level and still get the preparation for the degree course she plans to do and she doesn't want to take them further, anyway. She has chosen History and Psychology in addition to her favourites of English and German. She'll also be doing the Welsh bacc.

Sorry that is long. I hope it helps a bit to hear from someone who is much further down the line and has recently seen how GCSE choices impact on A level choices. Good luck!

OP this seems daft unless your DS has real problems with writing! My less academic DS took History, Geography and Resistant Materials for GCSE and the work load for REsistant Materials was probably the greatest - particularly getting his "folder" together and completing his practical project (a wooden TV table/shelf unit).

OP It is difficult to advise as we do not know your DS's capabilities. However, simplysparkling makes a good point: if he does have to drop one of Geog or Hist then drop Hist. This is because you can take Hist A Level without the GCSE but I don't think that you can do Geog A Level without the GCSE.
Is the recomendation for all pupils or just for your DS i.e. are others taking both Hist and Geog? If they can then what is the school's reasoning for your DS not doing it?
Why was resistant materials recommended, out of all the other possible subjects in the world? Rather than do another Tech, could he get more breadth by doing an Expressive Art.

"I suspect that the real reason is that DS would already be covering the International Bacc subjects and another technology subject may boost the schools uptake of the school specialism and help them achieve some sort of target. Could this be right?"

Light bulb moment. I think you are right, but wrong.
The school will have a finite number of Hist/Geog teachers who can only teach a finite number of GCSE. If your DS takes up two Humanity GCSE then he might prevent someone else. The school would prefer to have two pupils taking one Humanity each, instead of one (over)aceiving the EBacc and the other not getting it (and therefore mucking up their league tables).
Does this mean that the Hist/Geog classes will be stuffed with pupils who would rather not be there?

Thanks for all you comments.

Sorry yes I meant the English Bacc. DS1 is in the top sets for everything and has no real interest in resistant materials. He's now wobbling about his choices because the school have questioned them.

I must admit a heavy workload doesn't sound a negative to me. Isn't that how it should be?!

He's starting options in year 9 so has the chance to add further subjects later. Another of my suspicions(!) is because there are so many technical and btec options it doesn't leave much choice of academic subjects so they may be concerned about what he'll do in the future.

I think I'll email school tomorrow to air my concerns.

History and Geography are both now done on a modular basis in many schools. That means there are "pressure points" over the two years with modular exams and controlled assessments.

It might be worth asking when these key points are likely to be with History and Geography. If they are going to clash/overlap, that might be a consideration.

But if he's in top sets, enjoys writing, learns stuff easily, I really don't think there's a problem. and far better that he chooses subjects he thinks he enjoys than feel pushed into something he has no real interest in.

I am surprised that the school is advocating 2 tech subjects. My DSs are also a school with a technolgy specialism and they all have to take one tech, but they are not allowed to take any more.

Interestingly, the resistant materials is always over-subscribed, and places are given to those students they feel would benefit most from it. (including my very academic DS who wants to take it on to AS along with Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Chemistry)

Does geography really involve a lot of essays nowadays? I'm sure my O-level way back when didn't!

I asked DS whether it was hard work doing Hist and Geog GCSE together. He pulled the usual teenage 'what are you on about, mother?' face but then said "not really". Year 10 was a bit heavy because that is when they learn all the info. In Y11 there is not so much new subject matter; it is more about learning how to put it to good use i.e. exam technique. At least, that's the way it works in our school.

Don't let your DS get the wobbles about this. The school isn't thinking only of him and his abilities - they have their own agenda, which includes trying to timetable hundreds of kids and scores of staff. They can't please all the people all the time so sometimes you have to fight your corner to get what you want.

If history is your DS's choice then back him up and tell the school to f*k off! I went along with my DD1's school's advice and consequently she did not do the subjects she wanted to do. Result, she became very resentful, didn't work and didn't get the grades she was capable of in the subjects she had been forced to do. I learned my lesson and backed up both my younger children in their own choices. DS got better results than expected (he has never had much interest in academics, just wants to play his 'cello) and at DD2's parent's evening last week (year 11) was told they confidently expected her to achieve A/A in every subject. It's the kid's life, not the schools. Rant over

Let's calm down here folks. Someone says the teacher should 'butt out' would that same person complain if no options advice was given? The boy hasn't been told he has to take certain subjects just recommended. A bit like the poor girl at my school who was advised not to do certain subjects, mum ranted and raved that she should be doing them only for her to spend hours with me the other evening because her daughter had got into such a state and wasn't coping. It could also be because of school ratings but you only have to look at all the postings discussing where there child's school is on league tables to understand why.

Advice is fine but the decision has to be the child's, and only the child's, and the parent has to support that. My DD1 ended up not being able to do the A levels she wanted to do and has therefore had to take a different route to the university course she wants and is only now going to uni this coming year, by which time she will be twenty. That in itself is no great tragedy but I'm still living with the legacy that I didn't support her and therefore she holds me, justifiably, responsible for the position she is in. It is her life and she should have been allowed to make her own decisions and, if it turned out that way, her own mistakes.

My daughter went to a very well-regarded comprehensive but I don't think the school did a good job helping her make the right choices for GCSE. We didn't have an individual interview - there was an information evening and possibly the parents' evening or the one written report a year were scheduled to coincide too - it's five years ago now, so I don't remember! Anyway, she had to do Maths, English, Double Science, RE and ICT. She decided early on her optional subjects would be French, Spanish, Latin and History. Then at the last minute she decided to drop Spanish and take Art. This was because the Art dept did an impressive presentation. We were a bit surprised but knew she was not bad at Art so signed it off, expecting the school to advise if they thought it was a mistake. The school accepted the choices with no comment. Taking Art was a big mistake - she got a C and was quite lucky to get that. If she'd done Spanish I think she'd have got an A or a B. Equally importantly, she really didn't enjoy it all that much. With hindsight I wish someone at the school had queried it - can it really be the case that they're just as happy with a prediction of a C as an A, given that it all feeds into the magic 5 A-C pass rate?

Are the school suggesting he takes RM as well as catering?

IME the technology subjects, while not too demanding in terms of essays, involve time-consuming project work and presentation is a strong consideration in the marking.

< Bittter experience from DS1 taking RM and struggling and not caring less about the whole design/presentation side of it >

Seems far more pointless to take two 'tech' subjects than two humanities - and universities will surely look less favourably on someone with a clutch of 'ologies' in their GCSEs.

Taking two humanities at GCSE is "hard work"?

Unless your son has a real struggle with essay-writing, that just seems remarkably, well, unambitious. GCSE essays are hardly academically demanding for a bright kid.

My daughter's doing both history and geography. I think textiles takes up more of her spare time than both of the humanities added together! Luckily she enjoys it.

My ddis in yr11 and does RM,she only did it because she couldn't do Art(was over subscribed) and its design element appealed to her.
It is coursework heavy and she did spend 6hrs sanding down a base for a lamp recently.
However if your son would prefer an essay heavy course let him do it,the same amount of energy goes into practical RM or essays so pick whatever is most enjoyable for him....plus you cant be told " it's all your fault i'm doing this horrible subject" 2yrs down the line

I am very surprised that the achool would recommend RM as well as catering tbh. Isn't it unusual for a child to take two tech subjects?

My dd takes History and Geog, she is one of about a dozen kids who are taking both. They are both her favourite subjects and she is very lucky that the options allowed her to take both. She is dyslexic as well - we looked into the fact that she would have a high essay workload, but it has worked out fine. She still loves the subjects and will take them both at A level.

I would really recommend that he takes Hist and Geog - it is certainly not too much work, and in fact the way you approach the subjects complement each other imo.

DD also loves cooking and really enjoys catering. I saw it as a wasted subject, however as her school is a technology one she had to take it (that or textiles or graphics). It is a very practical course - dd cooks a lot for us in the week now in order to try out recipes