state school child got into Eton

[kris123]

Dear Mums,

Our son was accepted into Eton, and we are indeed very happy, but as always there are now new concerns. He is currently attending a state school, and is due to finishing this year at year 6, whereas Eton only starts in year 9. This means that we have two years "inbetween".

Please note that the offer to Eton, as all of them, is conditional on passing the common entrance exam , which I hear is not difficult, but still requires some work (especially as there are specific subjects like history and geography and latin to cover).

Our choices are:

1. play it safe, send him to the local prep school waste 14k a year basically, and put him under totally not needed stress with kids fighting for 13+ intake. Most prep schools will take him as he will simply improve their statistics.

2. send him to the grammar school, which our son will most probably get into (he did pass the test, but decisions due in March). Issue there for me is that they will not know the Independent Common Entrance System, and will not prepare him for it, and furthermore will not even know that he is leaving them at age of 13 to go to Eton. To add to this they do not teach Latin, one subject that is needed on Common Entrance Tests i think.

3. send our child abroad for one year, to France or Germany to learn a new language, have some fun, ski, relax, and basically enjoy a year after the stress of last two months, learning to board etc. Then bring him back for year 8 to prep school and prepare him for the exam that is towards the end of the year.

Now, I am lost with this topic, but maybe someone can guide me, especially on feasibility of plan 2) and 3). You see we are very much pro state school system - grammar of course, and want our son to learn that there are grammar schools for smart kids and be proud of his years there.

Now my concerns are:

a) how difficult are these common entrance tests? can someone actually fail them if they are smart and do some work, or do you need a lot of work and prep for it like with the admissions process?

b) what is the level and type of work done at the grammar schools... is their program similar to prep schools so that this knowledge can be used for common entrance?

c) how risky would it be to take a child out of the UK education system for one year, and bring him back to the prep school and prepare for the common entrance tests in one year?

Thanks, happy but still concerned parent

Lastpudding:

I will respond, as you genuinely want to know, but I must state that mumsnet has proven to be very addictive, and I must step away from it to focus more on xmas etc. I know its bad, having obtained what I needed, but I need to focus on that grammar school place for the DS, and its time to start the work on the DDs too. Will revisit the site once a week.

Lastpudding, the answer for you:

The choice was very easy for us, as DS wanted it very much. He cried with happiness when he got the offer letter. He waited for it everyday for last two weeks expecting it in November, wondering why it is not coming, asking us if we hid it from him (we never would, but are certain some parents apply this tactic to boost confidence). It cannot get simpler than that. He is still super happy now, researching stuff on the internet etc. He might be even reading this post.

Undeniably we probably slightly helped him with the boarding decision, that its fun, great opportunity to meet friends, etc - but he always liked trips, ski schools, summers with grandparents and so on and he does appear to actually want the boarding part. He is happy there will be no more mummy, daddy, sisters taking his books, ruining his piano practice. We have a large family household, and he is the oldest child, so its easier for him to realise the advantage of the boarding system vs staying at home. Finally some peace.

However, specific elements to Eton he liked:

• he really liked the fact that each child has a single room - not the case at other boarding schools btw
• he liked the fact David Cameron was there just few months ago giving some speech as PM (something he read on the notice board before interviews)
• he is fascinated by the history of the place, the own words, the somewhat funny dress code, etc. He likes history so its good thing he can actually be in the place which is part of it. We asked him to read the prospectus before the interviews, so I am sure that Eton themselves helped us to convince him that they are the place to be.
• he wants to form his own music band at school and is happy that there are 250 kids a year to chose from, most of whom play some instrument (currently there are 40 and forming a band is impossible), and he is happy there is a recording studio there, and I think he suggested to them that he wants to do the school Eton band factor, or something like that.
• he likes the fact he will be able to go for half terms without us, as clearly he has outgrown our family visits
• oh yes, and he really liked the matron of one house there, who kissed him on his forehead to say goodbye and was like a sweet grandma and not the matron

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And to us it was an easy choice too.

We wanted real boarding only school, and i am happy its in small village like Eton, vs for instance Winchester which is not so small and can present challenges of the local town, possibly local community even (i am fairly sure that the local comp boys will dislike the local public school boys out of principle).

When we visited Eton the boys I met, who were really randomly stopped, all were friendly, very confident for 16y old kids, just stopped in the middle of the street, talking to 30 parents who are staring at their somewhat long waistcoat. Importantly they all - without exception - had a very good sense of humour. :) It was a good sample of kids I would be happy for my DS to be around.

Plus, I am kind of motivated to stop looking at others now, as he is happy and why confuse him when he is happy. The place is great, and why even potentially allow some other places to reject him, confusing him even more.

Hope this answers your question.

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Just before I log off, for good i am afraid, I can tell you that I actually now think, that him wanting this place so much himself, perhaps because of actually reading the prospectus the day before, was probably key in his interview performance. No games, no saying that he reads poetry for fun (apparently people say this?!), no interview prep at all other than one instruction from us... to talk a lot.

Still no name of the person who said your son could sit his own exam,oh well,thats a shame as Eton seems to have no knowledge of this exam at all,they only allow children not to sit CE under exceptional circumstances,cant really see your circumstances fit that description,I suppose we shall all have to draw our own conclusions, Love your description of Eton as a village,where all is peace and harmony compared to the terrifying metropolis of Winchester. I do hope you soon tell us who agreed this one off exam as I know a few parents who might well be interested in asking for a refund on prep school fees.
I shall certainly pass on the tip about reading the prospectus before the interview,Im amazed no has thought of that before,brilliant..

Lazymum, a separate test for state school kids is the fact, it is based on NC, not CE. Unless they want someone to fail it, it should be a standard process, nothing to do with Kings Scholars route. Of course being at the good state school will be key.

Caoimhe, yes only in March we will know of the grammar school place, but should this be not successful (St Olave's does not tell you if you passed the test till March I think), then the best route of action will be via a prep school and CE exam, one so many parents suggested.

11+ intake to the other 11- 18 private schools is hence not needed at this point, and morally wrong as someone suggested, as we would need to lie about our intent.

Just had a good look round mumsnet, only a couple of months ago you were very keen on Hockerill Anglo European school(whatever that is) with no mention of Eton,Harrow,Winchester etc,most peculiar,now suddenly-your son has got a place at Eton,youve looked at these other schools and rejected them and you no longer mention Hockerill,please tell us who at Eton told you about this special enterance exam.

If the OP was looking at boarding then Hockerill is an entirely logical choice - state boarding, so lower fees, good facilities and a good enough academic reputation. Being swayed towards Eton is not necessarily inconsistent with that.

Btw I think your DDs deserve exactly the same chances as your DS wrt boarding and single sex education. I personally think girls benefit hugely from single sex education and if there's a family precedent of boarding they definitely should be able to try it too. To suggest otherwise is horrifically discriminatory. Thankfully girls typically switch at 11 so you won't have the prep school dilemma!

Why is this special test for state school boys not on the school website? what age do they expect them to take it, 11 or 13?

There was a TV programme about boys going for Harrow, I think, from state schools. They tried in year 5 and got funded at a prep school for years 6,7 and 8. This exam covered alot more than the NC.

I honestly think that once you are expected to self-fund then the only entry exam available is CE.

Sorry hit the return key before I'd finished.

Unfortunately, the independent sector is just that - independent. They will however bend over backwards to let in exceptionally talented kids who have not prepared for CE. However, the rest who have the ability to get in via CE have to take that route. And, yes, this does make it extra difficult to move from state primary to 'public' school in one go.

Propatria, I would imagine that this is not a rule, and it is designed with the aim of the boys who have been in the state system from the start, and not just for years 7-8. As you heard on this thread from other parents most other public schools have this process too.

I agree with you however that a lot of parents would love to send their children to prep schools for years 1-6, ideally get into grammar school, perhaps Eton too, and then move to state system for two years to save on fees and CE exam. Iustitia omnibus.

This is perhaps a reason why this is special cases only.

Unreal

"11+ intake to the other 11- 18 private schools is hence not needed at this point, and morally wrong as someone suggested, as we would need to lie about our intent."

But it's OK to do this to a state school? Bizarre.

Oh, and by the way, a lot of other private schools - and state ones, for that matter - have recording studios, bands and traditions. Saday, none of them could produce David Camerson to order, but choosing a school based on the kindness of a matron is perhaps a little odd.

Oh well, good luck. I suspect you're going to need it.

Thank you GoldFrak.

Hockerill is probably the best state boarding school in the country, so it is absolutely consistent with my choice of Eton later and everything I said here. My dilema before, a fair one i think was if I should chose Hockerill, a state comp but boarding vs day grammar school to which we would need to commute 2h a day. With the offer from Eton all this is solved, albeit at the 3x the cost of Hockerill.

And yes, no mention of Eton or Winchester earlier, as we never expected this to happen, and for my DS, Eton is an absolute dream come true - which we did not count on so much fortune.

I cannot believe I am getting drawn into this silly discussion. Total time wasting.

Oh well,Your son clearly isnt a special case,he could still attend a prep school,no one in the Eton admissions office is aware of this test/exam,,please tell us who said there was such a special exam?
Your second para of course makes no sense whatsoever,if you can have an exam based on the nc then there is no point in going to prep school,let alone for 6 years,if Eton had an enterance exam that wasnt CE ,then I can assure you a lot of people would be more than happy to save on prep school fees,but they dont and only in exceptional circumstances do child enter that have not passed ce.
You have also avoided answering why only last month you were asking questions about Hockerill/St Olaves,when by that time your son had already(according to you) been interviewed for Eton but at no stage did you ask questions about Eton/Harrow or Winchester all of which you now claim to have visited (among other schools)

Pixie,

OMG, I think the mistake is on my side, having confused things again. I am not very familiar with the system as you know.

It seems that I am hence back to square one, and a need to do CE exam like all the children.

Seeker will be happy... no more grammar school place being taken.

Propatria and Pixie - sorry to confuse you and waste your time.

Everyone else, thank you for your advice on CE and schools overall. Never thought that a silly question will turn into a full on discussion like this.

Goodluck everyone!

People make mistakes.

Ok Pixie, will do. I need to investigate this issue further by myself and in detail, and plan to do that in January during the house visits.

Though more informed than before, I still need to learn a lot about what is best for my DS.

Does anyone have any idea how to learn Latin without private tuition? Any group classes (London)? Thanks!

No idea on the Latin but it's not a common subject...

You could get the Cambridge course and work through it with your son. They do books with teacher crib sheets and Latin grammar is relatively straightforward IMO. If he's bright enough to pass the CE without going to prep he should be able to pick up Latin and motivated enough.

But surely it's worth spending a fraction of what you're planning to save on a prep on private tuition?

Maybe not, hence my question on Latin. I need to know what can be done, how much for, to make a right decision. You will remember that one option mentioned earlier was to start with prep school in January as Y6 is according to many of you very important. Also an element of good start remains.

One more thing: if you send a child to the prep school and they take the CE exam, BUT FAIL THE CE TEST, what are the options afterwards? I assume that each child takes one CE exam only so failure would be painful.

Check with the school. It is not a NC subject. If they are looking for something similar to CE Level 1 it is not hard and could be learned at home. Level 3 however is much harder and the expectation for almost all will be a minimum of 70%+ at Common Entrance. This is pretty much GCSE level, and represents about 4/5 years learning by bright boys with specialist teachers, and small classes.

There is a Cambridge Latin Course set of textbooks that leads up to CE. (Or an Oxford equivalent.) If your child is logical and takes to it, it might be possible to learn yourself, but the problem will be motivation and correcting errors.

Details here www.iseb.co.uk/

Be careful with the French. Our experience has been that CE French is more Grammar based than GCSE, which seems to be a lot of learning of phrases and vocabulary. This works because if you have a good structure you can easily learn the phrases and any extra needed for GCSE (and watch out, they probably do IGCSE which is considered harder). Just following the GCSE approach would be a handicap, if the rest of the class have a better grasp of the basic principles and probably would not get you through any CE type exam.

I would go for the prep school. Eton is only five years. It will be a fantastic experience for a child who can take the academics in his stride, with lots of opportunity for sport, music, drama and more. The alternative is to arrive 3 years from GCSE, behind in most subjects, and without as much experience of essay writing, argument, evidence etc.

Even switching to prep at the end of Yr 6 will be a slog and some schools will be reluctant to take a child later than the end of Yr 5. But at least the catchup is done then and though Eton will never be an easy ride academically, there will be scope to really enjoy what the school has to offer.

Lots of my son's contemporaries joined their Prep schools from the state sector. None though left it till 13. Eton is fiendishly expensive, in part because of the boarding costs. My advice. Stick to day and start at 11.

I don't think you "fail" CE as such but schools like Eton would expect a certain level of attainment as a minimum and may even specify a higher level for specific subjects. As I understand it if he/she answers Level 1 that automatically limits what the child can achieve.

In terms of failing the CE, it does not happen often. The child gets the conditional place at age 10/11 on the understanding that they are good enough. If the child starts slipping, the prep school will let you know, perhaps advising you to consider an alternative school, or suggesting that the child cuts back on out of school activities. Since you need at least 70% in each exam, not an average, teachers will also tell you where the child is weakest, and where efforts need to be focussed.

The exams are taken in June of year 8. It is in no one's interest for a child to fail at that point.