state school child got into Eton

[kris123]

Dear Mums,

Our son was accepted into Eton, and we are indeed very happy, but as always there are now new concerns. He is currently attending a state school, and is due to finishing this year at year 6, whereas Eton only starts in year 9. This means that we have two years "inbetween".

Please note that the offer to Eton, as all of them, is conditional on passing the common entrance exam , which I hear is not difficult, but still requires some work (especially as there are specific subjects like history and geography and latin to cover).

Our choices are:

1. play it safe, send him to the local prep school waste 14k a year basically, and put him under totally not needed stress with kids fighting for 13+ intake. Most prep schools will take him as he will simply improve their statistics.

2. send him to the grammar school, which our son will most probably get into (he did pass the test, but decisions due in March). Issue there for me is that they will not know the Independent Common Entrance System, and will not prepare him for it, and furthermore will not even know that he is leaving them at age of 13 to go to Eton. To add to this they do not teach Latin, one subject that is needed on Common Entrance Tests i think.

3. send our child abroad for one year, to France or Germany to learn a new language, have some fun, ski, relax, and basically enjoy a year after the stress of last two months, learning to board etc. Then bring him back for year 8 to prep school and prepare him for the exam that is towards the end of the year.

Now, I am lost with this topic, but maybe someone can guide me, especially on feasibility of plan 2) and 3). You see we are very much pro state school system - grammar of course, and want our son to learn that there are grammar schools for smart kids and be proud of his years there.

Now my concerns are:

a) how difficult are these common entrance tests? can someone actually fail them if they are smart and do some work, or do you need a lot of work and prep for it like with the admissions process?

b) what is the level and type of work done at the grammar schools... is their program similar to prep schools so that this knowledge can be used for common entrance?

c) how risky would it be to take a child out of the UK education system for one year, and bring him back to the prep school and prepare for the common entrance tests in one year?

Thanks, happy but still concerned parent

yes i was also thinking since she is not quite clear on what to expect, how to best prepare, she really does need to speak directly to someone at Eton about this.

but by extension llareggub, if you were in a situation where you lived in an area served by two comprehensive schools, one excellent and one failing, but knew you would be moving away in two years time, would you say you should put your child in the failing school so someone else could benefit from 5 years at the better school? I don't, and I don't really see why it makes a difference if it's a grammar school. In fact, in a true grammar area if your child is of the right ability range for the grammar it might be rather unfair to send them to a secondary modern that didn't cater well for their ability (even seeker would agree with this I'm fairly sure).

The OP's child will be depriving a local child a place at a desirable school. With the sole intention of using that school as a springboard to a different type of education. The child who is displaced by the OP's child will not get the place two years down the line - he or she will never get to the school that he wanted to go to at 11. I understand that this is legally fine - but to me it is morally unacceptable.

seeker
why would they not?

I (luckily) do not live in a grammar school LEA - all vacancies are open, fair and transparent
But if a grammar school vacancy comes up - as surely they must do how are they filled?
Is there a clear and transparent process?
Is the child who would have had OP's DS's sons place top of the list?
Or do they put children through the torture of more exams.
If not, surely there is a case for holding fire for a vacancy in year 8 / 9 / 10
but if the next most "deserving" do not get the space, the grammar school system (which is luckily rare) is even more corrupt than I thought it was.

Grammar school places are typically taken up by children transferring into the area not by local children who didn't get into their preferred school at 11+.

Have you considered options other than Eton?

For example, there are state boarding schools which combine excellent academics and extra-curricular activities with a broader social mix(Cranbrook in Kent is one). They are also a lot cheaper.

Also, if you are going to go for a grammar school, it ought to be one that you and he would be happy for him to stay it if he doesn't get into Eton.

You should also prepare yourself for the possibility that after a couple of years elsewhere, your son doesn't really want to go to Eton, but might be too scared to admit it to you. Please don't make it the be-all and end-all.

ok, a lot to take.

Yes the info comes directly from the College, so no website, no rumours, its just the way it is. State school pass a different exam to CE, based on NC - written and oral. I think that it is perfectly reasonable approach on their part, ONCE AGAIN A PROOF THAT THIS SCHOOL IS VERY MODERN IN ITS APPROACH.

Kings Scholars is something completely separate I think.

As to finances, well we all want to do best for our children, and since I can pay for it i will. As stated earlier, I would have not paid even a penny for the 2nd quality independent school (if I had the choice of grammar school), but to me Eton is a unique opportunity, an experience in itself, great boarding life and education stndards, selective, and basically as stated earlier - if I have to pay then I might as well be for a top boarding school. Another issue to pay, is that frankly I would feel like c**p for rest of my life if I would deny my son this opportunity, which he earned mostly himself, by studying, reading papers, watching news, practicing instruments, and crying out of happiness when he opened the envelope with the offer letter. The last few weeks, and months were very stressful indeed - and I know number of you will feel the same way.

Magichomes - you are a good person to feel this way, but I think that your parents are very happy about their choices and sacrifices made. It was for You, their child.

Seeker - yes, i feel absolutely justified to take the place in the grammar school (assuming that on March 1st i get a letter confirming it of course) for various reasons, including:

1. why do you expect me to pay 28k for two years or prep instead?
2. or would you expect me to take a place of another child at a local comp (your logic also applies here as "a" place is still taken)
3. grammar school can still take someone on after my son leaves, and i think they will (at worst at 16+ intake), and also arguably they are more likely to reutilise this place than the comp school
4. and finally i still have no guarantee that my son will actually pass the Eton test in 2013, and hence at worst I will have the option in form of the grammar school, vs being totally stuck with no place to go but my worst (as late entry) inner city comp which has something like 30% getting 5 gcsc's at a-c levels.

I also thought that you actually disliked the grammar school system anyway, so in some machiavelian way perhaps I am doing a good deed? :)

Goldfrak - yes I now totally discount the 3rd option, though only 24h ago, naively, i did even think of sending my son to the school in the middle of China to teach him Mandarin (but did not want to provoke comments from fellow parents on the site). How ones views change in 24h.

Anyway, mums, dads, once again thank you for introducing me to the concept of CE and English private education system, I leave this topic enlightened. I swear that someone should write a book "Real English Education System for Dummies".

It would have to be a 20-volume set of books.

A slight perspective.
I retook my A levels at Mander Portman (look it up if the name means nothing - it matters)
We had Eton, Harrow, Haileybury, Charterhouse, Oundle, Clifton, St Marys, Westminter, you ferkin name it, they had wasted their parents money.
And what I learned, through my own alcoholic haze with a 25 year 20:20 lens.
Many / most of us were fulfilling our parents dreams, not ours.
Hence we were doomed to fail.

OP
Why do you want DS to go to Eton?
Why does HE want to go to Eton?
Is he happy to separate from all his friends?
Are you happy to disown local parents?
Real questions, real answers.

Be very aware of what you want to achieve....

Just to clarify re. grammar schools and late entry. I have 1 DC at a grammar school, now in Y10. In the 3+ years he has been there, only 2 children (from a 180 annual intake) have left, and one of those was a brilliant musician who won a music scholarship elsewhere. On neither occasion was the vacancy filled in year, and when they were filled they were via exams so there is a 'clear and transparent' process as talkinpeace puts it, but it is not one which will benefit the same child who would have got a place in Y7.

So while the OP isn't doing anything wrong, her approach does stick in the craw a bit. Since the OP didn't seem in the slightest bit concerned about this when seeker pointed it out, I'm afraid I won't be passing on my detailed knowledge about Eton. Sorry.

Have to agree with you Mattellie - around here if a vacancy comes up at a grammar school everyone on the waiting list has to sit an exam again.

I think it is a pretty poor show taking a grammar school place for 2 years knowing you are leaving. Places at Comps are filled via the waiting list in a straightforward way so taking a place at a Comp would not disadvantage other children in the same sort of way.

I do find it hilarious that someone could moan about prep school fees for 2 years when they are planning to pay £30k a year for Eton!

I fear I am wasting time here, but I defend my position, especially as neither of you offers even a reasonable rational alternative (pls remember that we are in December so even if I would want to change my secondary school choices I could not).

You agree that the vacated grammar school place - assuming I vacant it - will be filled, via a fair process. Furthermore, being filled at 13 or 14, it might offer one brilliant boy an opportunity to enjoy a grammar school, who being 13 will actually be old enough to realise its importance and study hard by himself, vs vast majority of boys who at 10 are simply the products of their talent AND the ambition and motivation of their parents (read countless hours of hard work and past papers).

In any case I also find it surprising that you chose to attaack me, and not the actual grammar school admission policy. If you do think that there is a problem with the system, try to change the actual system and not force everyone to adapt to its problems.

Mattellie, telling me that you have helpful information but will not release it is just spitful.

Caoimhe, stereotyping that everyone who pays 30k per year might as well pay extra 28k for prep, is exactly a reason why I want my son to go to the the grammar school first, as no doubt later someone like you will say that my son got into Eton only thanks to the 15k per year prep school he attended financed by his parents.

So on that note maybe i will go and ask my son to stop playing the PS3 now and start preparing for that last grammar school exam in January. Days like today, dark, snow, cold, are just perfect for studying.

I attack the system. AND those who exploit it for their own ends.

Seeker, start a new thread, call it: perfect education system.

Collect views (I will give you mine too if you care), and send them to the education secretary and see what he can do. Create a biggest thread mumsnet.com has ever seen. Conclude it, create a vote on it.

You know, internet, forums, chatlines, has made people much more comformist. You think that you put down your emotions on some forum and you make a difference, then you go back to your everyday life, and actually - nothing changes. Do you know that oil companies like Shell, BP, have run iternet campaigns on environmental issues, which in effect became a one way email traffic of hate - but as Shell explained it, it actually puts the pressure away, as people have reacted - and reacte in vain.

If you want to improve the system (change is a big word), you need to take it a step furhter. Use the forum as a media, collect info, open webpages, facebook, twitter, voting, send them off to the education secretary - YOU ARE LUCKY NOW, NEW GOVERNMENT USUSALY MEANS OPENESS FOR NEW IDEAS and admittance that the current system is a failure (and you see this blame game everyday on tv).

There are plenty of things you can do good, but most certainly not depriving my son of a place at the grammar, as you think that someone else, of lesser performance in the test, has a higher "moral right" to it. This is not only wrong, but actually a very dengerous way of thinking (luckily though only on a website). Mao Tse Tung was only few steps above you with his Cultural Revolution.

You're great value, Kris, with your high-minded love of state education (but only grammar schools) and your desire to send your son to Eton (of all places).

I don't know how you square the circles in your mind.

Happy to do that. But this thread is about the choices you are making and you asked for advice about them. I am perfectly entitled to say that I believe your choice to be morally suspect, just as you have a perfect right to ignore my views.

The grammar school system is inherently unfair. But it has been made more unfair because it is now almost exclusively the preserve of middle class privileged children. Like yours - and to a lesser extent, mine.

You are denying another child a place at grammar school. This is undeniable. There are a finite number of places. You are suggesting that child takes one of those places with the sole intention of being a sort of 'tourist" in the state system for a couple of years so that he knows how to talk to "ordinary people". This to me is unacceptable.

This is one way to look at it.

The other is that there are a lot of "ordinary people" who simply refuse to talk or deal with the lets call them "other people", and the "other people" would hence greatly benefit if they have the ability to also talk to "ordinary people" that refuse to talk to the "other people".

Ah - so your child is now doing the grammar school kids a favour by going there!!!!!

A bit like VSO?

It's just keeps getting better.........

Can I ask what you will do if your ds goes to the grammer school for two years and then at 13 says he wold rather stay there than go to Eton ?

everybody hates a tourist

Seeker, I think VSO should only be allowed into Comps, why should you Grammar lot have yet another advantage?

Lastpudding...this is a very good question and I will think about it when it happens.