state school child got into Eton

[kris123]

Dear Mums,

Our son was accepted into Eton, and we are indeed very happy, but as always there are now new concerns. He is currently attending a state school, and is due to finishing this year at year 6, whereas Eton only starts in year 9. This means that we have two years "inbetween".

Please note that the offer to Eton, as all of them, is conditional on passing the common entrance exam , which I hear is not difficult, but still requires some work (especially as there are specific subjects like history and geography and latin to cover).

Our choices are:

1. play it safe, send him to the local prep school waste 14k a year basically, and put him under totally not needed stress with kids fighting for 13+ intake. Most prep schools will take him as he will simply improve their statistics.

2. send him to the grammar school, which our son will most probably get into (he did pass the test, but decisions due in March). Issue there for me is that they will not know the Independent Common Entrance System, and will not prepare him for it, and furthermore will not even know that he is leaving them at age of 13 to go to Eton. To add to this they do not teach Latin, one subject that is needed on Common Entrance Tests i think.

3. send our child abroad for one year, to France or Germany to learn a new language, have some fun, ski, relax, and basically enjoy a year after the stress of last two months, learning to board etc. Then bring him back for year 8 to prep school and prepare him for the exam that is towards the end of the year.

Now, I am lost with this topic, but maybe someone can guide me, especially on feasibility of plan 2) and 3). You see we are very much pro state school system - grammar of course, and want our son to learn that there are grammar schools for smart kids and be proud of his years there.

Now my concerns are:

a) how difficult are these common entrance tests? can someone actually fail them if they are smart and do some work, or do you need a lot of work and prep for it like with the admissions process?

b) what is the level and type of work done at the grammar schools... is their program similar to prep schools so that this knowledge can be used for common entrance?

c) how risky would it be to take a child out of the UK education system for one year, and bring him back to the prep school and prepare for the common entrance tests in one year?

Thanks, happy but still concerned parent

ds is taking CE next summer. It is very much a specific syllabus and in some subjects you answer different questions is you want to achieve a higher level (ie Latin has at least 3 and even level 1 is not that basic) btu you can substitute some subjects ie Spanish for Latin. The papers are formal exams involving essay writing and evidence based answers, a technique which has ot be learned. Most of the syllabus has been taught by end Year 7 with Year 8 devoted to revision, projects and extra topics or scholarship level. If he needs CE I think he'd really need to attend a prep school aiming for it - several children join dc's prep u year 7 to do so - or have tutor to supplement. The likes of Whitgift and Trinity have the bulk of their intake at 11+ so don't need to do CE syllabus.

What a very strange op,your son is hopefully going to Eton but you know nothing about the exams he will need to pass,most peculiar,why have you not spoken to The College,they are more than happy to advise prospective parents.

Also a point of information. Westminster under school does take 20 children in at 11+ and give them a very accelerated year 7 to catch up on the other boys in the year they then mix them up in year 8 into scholarship and common entrance streams. Entrance is NOT automatic into Westminster at 13+ (unless you have a full bursary) although in 10 years no one has failed because they select very able boys who they know will work hard and achieve the 70%+ in every exam. If you want to apply you may have missed the deadline as the exam is in January but if you get in touch directly perhaps they would understand your predicament. A large group of Westminster under school boys choose to go to Eton so socially he would have already some friends.

Other schools such as Kings, Colet Court (St Paul's) are no longer preparing boys for full CE so would not be an option. The alternative would be 13+ prep schools which aren't that happy to have boys arriving into year 7, prefer them in year 6 as the CE curriculum starts then. I have a friend who is moving her child into year 6 for that reason and also aiming at Eton.

Do let us know what advice Eton has on the matter.

the English education system is very confusing if you're not used to it though, especially factoring in all the state/private issues. A lot of the OP's confusions seem to have come from assuming words mean what they sound like they mean, like 'common entrance' and 'preparatory school'. Which is fair enough.

""You see we are very much pro state school system - grammar of course,"

So you're not actually pro state education at all - you're pro the state education available to 23% of the children in about 10 Local Authorities out of 150.

So you are pro 160ish state secondary schools out of 3000ish!

would just add that DS has been this morning working on planning his revision timetable for the Xmas hols as tehy have the mocks in January - he is expected to do an average of 3 hours per day - as his school friends are also in the same boat can be managed - if his friends were not taking CE would be hard for him to focus.

'The alternative would be 13+ prep schools which aren't that happy to have boys arriving into year 7, prefer them in year 6 as the CE curriculum starts then. I have a friend who is moving her child into year 6 for that reason and also aiming at Eton. '

That's when I moved my son--year 6. He'd been in state primary before then. He had to work very hard on his non-existent French to catch up with the others. The standard they were expected to reach by May of year eight was: present, imperfect, perfect and near-future.

Thank you everone once again. You all confirm that prep school is needed, and despite this not originally being my choice of action, your consistency of views is actually very reassuring.

Civil, you understand me approach to Eton very well stating - " If you're going to go private, you might as well go to Eton - much more different than a bog standard private school".

My approach to primary school was very similar to this, hence I opted for state school and not a prep school. My child is very happy there too, and many children get to grammars and various public schools (though I do admit that this being a VE CoE school it is probably not that representative of a standard primary school discussed on the BBC this morning).

I should also clarify that I wanted my son to go to grammar school for years 7 and 8, also in order to somewhat protect him from the "Eton bashing" that I often see even on this website and to which my son could be exposed to later in life. The world can be a cruel place to Eton graduates who do not make it to be PMs and MPs, or have no "old money" to fall on, and I figured it would be good if one day my son is able to identify himself with both the fellow Etonians AND the state school graduates. I would like him to be flexible here and somewhat immune to "Eton bashing" he could later experience. Not every Etonian will become a PM.

Undeniably I am still bit unexperienced with these issues (hence my almost silly questions on CE), but having seen Eton, Harrow, Winchester, and many other schools, I do think that a place like Eton, 1st choice public school for so many, can be absolutely great to prepare for the 21st century. Utilisation of time, ethos, sports, even somewhat outdated dress code, almost total separation from parents (no weekend boarding) - this is what I think my child needs in the times when we, the parents, are afraid to even allow them to walk alone down the road to the supermarket.

Also, perhaps not too humbly, I think that the fact that my son, state school educated, of immigrant background, was accepted, is in itself the best sign to me that the place is clearly adapting and being open to boys of various backgrouds. You know, contrary to many stereotypes, nobody asked me for a parent interview, display my bank statement, etc. It was always about him, and frankly I have little doubt that he will succeed there. I am only somewhat worried about this potential later phenomenon of "Eton bashing" - which probably has an impact on kids confidence in itself (some probably retreat into bunkers of fellow Etonians, while others appear simply overconfident), and hence I feel that a state school background will protect him from that too.

Hope this makes sense, and once again thank you for all your views. I will definitely speak to Eton Admissions now, but at least I will know better now what I am talking about rather than looking like a totally unprepared parent that admitingly until your advice I somewhat was.

You're not silly, kris123. And Eton is a good school. I know lots of kids who've been there and they are all good people. I find them chatty and approachable.

Wow, very useful info again! This website is great!

The house visits at Eton will start in January. This will be another topic to investigate via Mumsnet! I will of course also seek advise from Eton admissions, but your views prepare me well before talking to them. Otherwise I will appear to them like I did to you - utterly unaware dreamer.

I am now almost thinking of taking my son to the prep school from January not to waste time! Definitely need to start French lessons. I never realised there were such differences in education. Prior to your messages I was really naively thinking that its great that my son will now have two years to focus on his soft skills like languages, computer programming, his own interests and now I see that this will not happen. Sceary.

LetsEscape: we did also apply to Westminster for 11+ intake so we will see how this goes. I gess this would be a top prep school to aim for?

seeker: i do agree with you that lack of grammars in all local authorities is not optimal, and I think they should be expanded and perhaps they could even start at the age of 13 so that kids taking them can be old enough to realise their importantce.

Once again thank you for your input.

Irrelevant, I know, and hijacking as well, but I hope I didn't leave the imression that I was a supporter of the grammar school system........

Nobody who knows you would make that mistake for long, seeker! ;)

hypocritical

Mums, just to update you,

Basically the panic is over, and I am afraid that i wasted a lot of your time (though its great to have learned so much about the system - THANK YOU).

Boys who go to Eton from the state school system, instead of doing CE exams, are doing a different exam based on the National Curriculum (at the similar time).

I can only assume that they will be later accelerated with education in French and Latin once they join the school.

I though that the school would have made some provisions for the state school boys, and I was not dissapointed. This is great news, very much in tune with the times I think (to expect everyone to attend a prep school would be surprising).

This means that he can now go to the local free grammar school, what I am very much relieved with, as finances are an issue for us.

Thank you once again for your guidance and help!

I'm glad your questions have been answered. Just wondering - how do you feel about your ds taking a place at a grammar school when he is only going to be there for 2 years - thereby denying another child the place?

Careful Kris, I think you could be talking about this :

"In year 8 (age 13): a boy with great academic strength from any educational background can win a King?s Scholarship, and an outstanding musician with good academic qualities can win a Music Scholarship. We are also introducing a New Foundation Scholarship which will create an entry opportunity for a small number of boys from UK state schools at age 13; although such boys might find preparation for the King?s Scholarship difficult to achieve, they will have intellectual potential comparable to that of a King?s Scholar, and will sit a special examination based on the national curriculum but designed to draw out that flair."

This is seeking out boys from the state system who have the same potential as the King's scholars. I have found this just by looking at Eton's website. I think you need to do more research. Obviously, I know nothing about your son, but this will be a highly competitve entry and unless you are sure it is very risky. If you have the funding CE via a prep school would be less risky.

Check out this 'New Foundation Scholarship' they are talking about and ask on Mumsnet what they look for in Kings Scholars. I know a few boys who entered for Queens Scholars at westminster and this is on a completely different level to CE.

Eton is a rather strange choice for someone who says finances are an issue.

time and money permitting, I would suggest that you begin to get your ds started on Latin and French anyway. He will have a lot to get adjusted to when he starts in Eton if it all goes according to plan. No harm in laying the ground beforehand. Good luck.

seeker,

As a taxpayer, the OP will be perfectly within her legal and moral rights to a grammar school place, as with any state school place.

When her DS leaves, someone else can backfill.

Nothing to worry about at all.

Well, legally perhaps but I wouldn't go as far as morally right. To deprive another child of that place when the OP intends to send her son elsewhere is pretty poor behaviour, IMO.

llareggub
Are you really implying that there is no turnover of pupils in grammar schools?
That every child who starts year 7 stays to year 13?
The reality is that "churn" in all schools is around 5% per year group per year for a thousand and one factors.
The OP has an excellent opportunity for their son, should possibly have used google before posting, but will not be depriving any child of a chance.
By going private they are in fact freeing up their taxes to finance another child's grammar school place.

It is a question of intent, though, isn't it? He is taking up a place that he won't use beyond age 13, so a local child will be deprived of a place. Different to someone who intends to stay there but finds that they need to move for other reasons.

It just doesn't feel right to me.

If you really want Eton, or any other well-rated boarding from 13+, you need to find a school which prepares for the CE or to be extremely confident about preparing them yourself and hope that the extra work they're doing doesn't disadvantage them at their existing state school, which tend to teach to the NC rule whereas the CE doesn't expect that and expects both more advanced knowledge and a different way of thinking.

I'm already looking ahead 12 years and planning (and I don't even know whether this DC is a boy) the best way to get them through the CE at 13 without going through the prep system and most people tell me it's impossible. So it's looking like prep for Y6.

King's Scholars are exceptional students. Verging on genius, if not actually there, they have outstanding analytical and evaluative skills combined with the ability to think laterally, exeptional general knowledge, very advanced vocabulary and are in the top 5% across the board, usually showing particular flair in one area e.g. science. If the scholarships mentioned above are the state equivalent of that then your DS probably stands a better chance taking the CE with whatever prep you can give him from a state school. Going for that scholarship basically means you are relying on your DS's natural intelligence and skills to mark him out as the 1 from every single other boy taking that exam. I doubt they provide tuition in French and Latin, I suspect they will be relying on natural flair and intelligence for them to pick it up.

From what I've read (thanks to google) they're also aimed at those who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford the fees, which doesn't seem to be the case for you. They also say this about the admissions process:

"The scholarships are awarded after examination and interview. Round I of the testing enables us to identify boys who are potentially academic high-flyers, ideally also with other talents to be developed in sport or in the arts, and with the personality to adapt successfully to the life of a boarding community. Round II involves examinations which are based on the National Curriculum with compulsory papers in English, maths and science. In addition, there will be a general academic interview, the emphasis of which can be determined to a certain degree by the candidate himself."

That's a pretty tall order....

Prep also has the advantage that your DS will know other boys going to Eton, which eases the transition, and be accustomed to some of the other traditions associated with public schooling. It's increasingly likely that those boys will have come from state school too, especially with all the 11+ stage prelim testing which makes Eton et al more accessible to those in the state primary sector where the change is at 11.

It's important to remember that Eton do not expect every boy to have attended prep. They merely expect every boy to be capable of passing the CE with flying colours. Any boy, state or privately educated, can go for the exam. Private schools have the advantage of not being bound by curricular restrictions and can devote more preparation time to it. If you're sufficiently familiar with the system then you could prepare your son yourself, but making him do additional work whilst at a state school does deprive him of some of the opportunities his grammar school peers will have AND mark him out from them, which rather defeats the point of giving him immunity from Eton-bashing.

And I would completely discount your original option 3 btw.

Kris, have you been told this directly by Eton or have you picked it up from the website?