London Admissions - Do you think schools know what position you put them on your list ?

[drosophila]

I suspect they do. I know they are not meant to but I really really think they know whether you have put them no1 or not.

No they don't as the applications go through the LA and the LA can't tell the schools.

I still think they do.. I'm not sure how but I really think they do. I know one head who told a friend of mine not to believe it when we are told that they don't know the position you out the school. Also some of he comments made by Heads at open days seem to allude to this.

NO, they do NOT. Or at least if they do it doesn't disadvantage you in your chance of getting an offer.

We have been offered a hugely over-subscribed school as a 3rd choice. I know people who were offered Latymer, QE boys, Dame Alice Owens, Henrietta Barnet and Fortismere as 2nd and lower choices, all of which are the London honeypot schools that people sell their grandmothers to get into.

Honestly, we've done secondary transfer twice ourselves and seen loads of other people do it. Schools are not allowed to take it into account -- if they did they'd be taken to the cleaners by the appeals procedure and/or ombudsman.

they're all on the exams though agony, aren't they? Well I don't know about fortismere but the others are. So if the child is super-top in teh exams I think they'd be unlikely to throw a strop because they're not first choice - the schools will be fighting over children who are that bright/adept at exams.

Out of interest what route did the children who got into all these schools take? Private primary or state + tutoring etc? I have fantasies about owens for a few years time

As for the OP... I don't know. I know what you mean in that there is still plenty of jiggery-pokery - especially with the faith schools - but I agree with agonybeetle that parents are clued up now and they'd get clobbered on appeals and it'd be uproar.

It is an integral part of the school admission process that the schools do not know what the preference was.

In schools that are their own admission criteria, they get a long list of pupils from the LA that the admission committee of the school then have to put in admission criteria order. They do not know what preference that is at - that is the base of the equal preference process that is now employed. The list is then sent back to the LA who then confirm which pupils actually get the place based on how the parent have put down the preferences

Even if they did find out, does it really matter? They can't drop you further down the ranking because they're not your first choice school. You only "lose out" because you got offered a place at a school you preferred.

We now have the primary heads trying to tell all the parents that if they don't put down the schools in their genuine order of preference, then they really can't complain when they get their top school on the form but really wanted the second one.

Some of the selectives might know that you didn't put their school top because they will supply a ranked list to the LA, who then do the offers. These schools operate their own waiting lists and can see that x amount of the the top achieving children from their test aren't on their allocated list or waiting list.

It has been know in our borough for some of these selective schools to write to these families offering them a place back on their waiting lists, and therefore because they were the top achieving children, they jump to the top of their lists, giving them a chance of a second chance. Bit unfair really I think but they are trying to secure the top students.

But they don't know when the places are actually allocated as the LA does this.

Schools do not know where they are placed on the preference list. They are not allowed to know.

I think some parents misunderstand what the schools are saying. I had a parent tell me that they had to put latymer first otherwise they wouldn't get in, because they wouldn't take you if you put it 2nd. Fishing a bit further the school were actually saying if you put latymer 2nd and an underscribed school first and you are succesful at both schools then you will be given the less popular school because you ranked it higher, not because latymer were refusing you because you ranked them 2nd.

ISNT, the same applies for non-selectives -- no evidence that order matters, and lots that it doesn't. The schools would only know this if told by the LEA, and the LEA has no reason to co-operate with schools trying to fiddle their system.

Re the selective schools, all the kids I know who got in did so via state primary schools with a bit of tutoring. And some who got into eg Owens via sibling policy, following on the heels of an able older sibling. Or via music places etc.

did you get a leaflet from your council?

we are applying for secondary school through that online london admissions system this year

we were sent a leaflet through the post that showed us how many applied last year and it also showed how many people got offers for 1st preference, 2nd preference etc.

i am keeping fingers crossed we get our first preference. I always thought we'd have no trouble as it's fairly close to us (well in same area) but they are expecting a huge upsurge in secondary numbers apparently due to lots of people deciding they can't afford private! Argh!

It also wouldn't matter to the school, would it? Schools need applicants, and in our borough need them across the different bands.

oh and it's the admissions people who do everything rather than the schools (for non selectives anyway, which is all we have here)

the woman told me on the phone it's a very simple process in many ways

they go through the criteria, see if you meet them (so public care, special needs, siblings, link schools then distance) and they churn out the offers based on the one you meet the criteria for that has the highest preference....or something along those lines

I find it's the sort of thing where the less I know the happier I am. The more I know, the more it makes me want to dive under the duvet!

Dive under the duvet - hah, it makes me want to disembowel myself.

Thanks agony

lol mi

I just pray they keep the sibling policy so I only have to do this once!

I have just put mine in. Couldn't bear it any longer!

surely people can tell though dinosaur?

they are so bloody aware here that if someone 0.1m further away than someone else who didn't get in was successful it would probably be all over the local papers!

Interesting. Thanks for the thoughts.

The popular school in our city (the only 1 of 9 that got grade 1) told me we would only have a chance of getting in if we put them as no 1 prefereence

but doesn't that make sense though maggi? As I think they go through your list and offer you your highest preference school that you meet the criteria for. Therefore, if you put it as second preference and met the criteria for the 1st preference one, you would get an offer at your 1st preference?

I guess most popular schools only get to offer places to 1st preferences as they probably have more 1st preference applicants than places.

is a minefield this really