Physics at Uni, poss Oxbridge?

[YetAnotherMum]

My son is good at physics/maths and would like to study physics an university.

He's academically good (A* in maths A2 in year 12, As in AS physics/chemistry/biology, with 100% in physics and not far off in the rest). However he can hardly string a sentence together so I can't imagine him coming over well at an interview. Also he only got a C for English Lang for GCSE.

Would it be better for him to try for Oxford which requires an exam, or Cambridge which I don't think does. He's at a comprehensive so won't get any special training in sitting the Oxford exam.

Any comments welcome.

TBH, I wouldn't go for Physics at Oxford/Cambridge - other Russell group unis are much better for physics based degrees. What area is he specifically interested in ? I'm a physicist who manages to work as one too

Imperial College London would be my first choice for physics tbh, if you think he's be OK in London.

Maybe he should look at Imperial or Manchester to study physics. There several good Physics departments in the UK. Many physics departments offer scholorships to strong applicants.

What does he want to do afterwards? Prehaps he needs to think about what courses would nuture his weak points as well as his strong points. Would he benefit from a year in industry? Does he want to do a year abroad?

One problem with a Physics degree is that its not as marketable as it once was. I did get a job working in mathematical physics, but it tends to be contract work and very competitive.

Many jobs that Physics graduates went into are now filled by more vocational degrees. A degree in Maths and Computer science would be good if he wants to financial modelling. It could also led to jobs in software engineering. Would he be better looking at engineering?

I am not sure whether its worth the increased debt doing an MPhys degree. However its been 15 years since I did my degree. [old cogder emoticon]

If he is very good he might be better doing a BSc degree and then a funded MSc. Or you can go direct to a PhD from a BSc.

It would be better for him to combine it with something that gives him a sellable skill like computing.

I have a Physics degree and frankly its pretty useless to me.

My Physics degrees (MPhys and MSc) and my DHs (MPhys and PhD) have been very useful for us, I work as a Physicist, DH doesn't but his degrees are very relevant to his job. We both really enjoyed studying Physics and easily found good jobs (and well paid jobs) following our postgrad work, I think Physics graduates are still very desirable to employers, graduate training schemes etc...

We didn't go to Oxbridge, but we went to a Russel Group university. I would recommend Imperial, Cardiff, Exeter or Manchester. I see no reason though why he shouldn't have a stab at Oxbridge if that is what he wants. I wouldn't apply for the one he has more chance of getting into necessarily if I was him, but apply for the one I preferred.

One point to make I graduated 11 years ago, so it might not be the same but...
We were advised to apply for MPhys (needed higher A Level grades at the time), I think it might have been the first year my university offered MPhys, we were told we could turn it into a BSc after second year if we didn't want to continue, or if they didn't want us to continue. But not vice versa!

I did get a good job after doing an MSc in Computational Physics. I think a lot physics graduates end up doing Postgrad work.

I would recommend looking at course that is going to be fun as well as making him employable. Three years studying physics puts many people off a career in Physics even if they start all enthusasic.

The challenge is finding child friendly work that uses a Physics degree, that isn't teaching. Hence I work as an It technican in a school. Working term time only is very convienent. I am very bored and I am looking for a new challenge.

interesting data here on Physics courses

Three/Four years studying anything can put someone off a subject, it all comes down to whether you enjoy it or not.

There were 8 people in my MPhys class (70 ish in BSc). I am still in touch with all 8. 6 of us did postgrad, 1 became an accountant, 1 became a teacher. Out of the 6 that did postgrad, 1 went into Medical Physics, 3 into Defence, 1 stayed in Academia and 1 went into the City.
Anyway this isn't what you asked, I just don't want you and your DS to be put off by job prospects, who knows what job prospects fir any graduate are in today's climate. He should study something he loves in a University that suits him.

physics at Cambridge is taught as part of the Natural Sciences Tripos. You don't specialise in a particular science in your first two years, but take a number of courses in different sciences. You specialise in the 3rd year.

DH started off with the aim of specialising in chemistry, but ended up taking his finals in the history and philosphy of science.o

Thanks for all the very helpful comments. He's not completely sure what he wants to do as a career, but thinks he would like to do 'research'. He's interested in the very-low temperature physics and particle physics, but as was mentioned it is very difficult to actually know what it would like to study these at university until you get there.

From what I've gathered from various open days, you really need the 4-year qualification to go onto a Phd nowadays.

Apart from Oxbridge, he's looked at Durham, Sheffield, lancaster & Birmingham - he likes them all so I think he'll wait to see if he gets any offers and then go and have another look.

I suppose he's just quite taken with the challenge of getting in to Oxbridge, as this would obviously be big deal to get in there. So it's difficult to see past that, even if I doubt whether he would 'fit-in' there.

By the way, the only open day for Imperial was the same day as one of his maths exams and the website made it clear that was the only chance to visit so tough if you couldn't make it! Other universities seem much more welcoming so it has put him (& me) off Imperial, probably stupidly.

Well all the best for him; he should go for it and see what happens. He shouldn't worry about fitting in, Physics students IME are such an eclectic mix!

If he has trouble at interview, I'd think he should avoid Oxford (and probably Cambridge too). No matter how well he does on the test, he will be expected to talk at interview (about physics, obviously) as this is how he will be taught by his tutors should he get in.

I second the 'try other good universities' if this is a problem.

All the best to him - physics is great!

Despite what I said earlier, there's no harm in having a bash at Oxbridge, and there's no doubt that having it on his cv wouldn't do any harm in later life even if it's not the absolute best curriculum.

Oxbridge physics students are not exactly Brideshead Revisted types IME - so fitting in would be much less of a worry than for a PPE/History/English student - and the nice thing is that with 10,000+ students in each university and loads of societies it's pretty easy to find your own niche.

Don't worry about interviews. If he wants to try for Oxbridge then there is no harm. It is not as if you only have to choose one department on the UCAS form.

Loads of physics graduates are completely and utterly tongue tied including me!

I did work in research for two and half years, but I absolutely hated it. Sometimes you can have ambitions to do a particular job, but it turns not to be as you expected.

I have a feeling that physics departments promote their MPhys as they want bums on seats. I would be surprised if you need an MPhys for a taught masters course or an MSc by Research. IMHO a taught masters course is a better preparation for a PHd and employement than an extra year of a general degree.

Don't worry about the MSci vs BSc. Most people choose the Msci, but you always downgrade (but it's harder the upgrade).

I'd say its becoming less common for people to need a MSci in order to a PhD. Where I just got my PhD, a third of the current PhD students only had a BSc. Depends on the subject, in a lot of fields, the fourth year doesn't add much, also depends on the researcher.

The open days are great for getting a feel of the place. Each university has it owns character, so providing its a top 20 uni, go for the ones where he would feel the most comfortable.

As others have said, he can choose more than 1, so no need to make final decisions just yet.

I also thought I wanted to go into Astronomy. Once I got to uni found out I hated it (still enjoy but not in the detailed research), so now I'm in semiconductor physics (which I thought I hated). So going somewhere with lots of different research is a good idea.

DS is leaving next weekend to start his Physics degree at Sheffield. He chose Physics as it is well respected and (hopefully!) opens doors. He would like to go into business, but who knows what the future holds.

When he vaguely contemplated Oxbridge - which was never a real possibility - he always favoured Cambridge.

His school felt that a strong and varied PS helped him get his offers, although I know many people think they're not considered.

Thanks again, lots of food for thought. Good luck to ajandjjmum's DS at Sheffield - I thought the physics dept there, and the place in general, looked great.

My DD is at Cambridge, tho not doing physics. There's a huge variety of people there so I hope your son doesn't think there's only a certain social type. If he's got the academic ability, he'd be fine! I do know Imperial and others are very highly respected too. My DS is looking at a science career so we'll be starting reserach very soon into these. (he's just started As's)

I would encourage him to give one or other a try if he wants too, especially if he's going to regret not trying if he doesn't. He has four other options on UCAS as well, so it's perfectly reasonable to have one choice as a bit of a long shot (though it sounds as though academically he'd fit in there).

If he sits the Oxford exam and does very well, they will take him more or less regardless of interview. If he's more in the middle then they will decide at interview (but be looking for physics/maths ability rather than English I would think) and if he doesn't do so well in the exam then he may not get an interview. He sounds like a bright cookie and is probably quite able to prepare himself for the exam - are there past papers he can work through? Be aware that the papers are likely to be very hard, so a good score is quite low (at least it was like that in days of yore). The Oxford physics course may suit him better if he's sure that's the subject he wants to study. As someone else mentioned at Cambridge the first year is a more broadly based science course unless you opt for the maths and theoretical physics route which would also require him to sit the (rather fiendish) STEP maths exams which do trip quite a few people up.

Having gone to Cambridge, I would always encourage people to apply. It's a great place to study and you are well supported.

Physics at Cambridge is hard. You start on the NatSci tripos and then specialise as years go on.

However, it sounds like you son has great grades and he should give it a bash. Cambridge is looking for bright and motivated students, so a lack of conversation may not be a problem!

As for employability; even if there are few physics jobs around, employers love sciencey degrees from Oxbridge.

My DH has PhD in Theoretical Physics from Cambridge. He did the Math Tripos as an undergraduate but started Natural Sciences before transferring because he had no interest in anything at all practical!

I asked him and he would recommendCambridge, Durham, Imperial, Oxford. While some of the redbrick unis are as good if you continue to do PhD, for a career outside Physics the four above also have a bit more lustre.

He does worry that A levels now don't distiguish the good from the brilliant. Oxbridge thus ends up accepting coached applicants over academically more capable but less well rounded types. His view was perhaps risk a STEP paper in Maths to differentiate.

DH has worked in academia, intelligence services but mostly in finance. They would always take math and physics grads over an MBA/economics/PPE even thoug no specilized knowledge is required.

My DH studied Physics at Birmingham and he tells me you have to be reasonably good at English due to the essays he had to write. Birmingham has a good reputation. He does not use Physics at all now as an accountant and did have to do post grad training but that was in the last recession when graduate jobs were hard to get.

I used to work for actuarial firms though and they would rather have a physics grad over a maths grad due to the amount of communication in physics over maths and the 'out of box' thinking. Some of the most interesting actuaries I worked with were physics grads.

That's all very interesting. I find it difficult to advise my son as although he has done well at school I wonder if a lot of that is due to the hard work he puts in. But I think sitting the Oxford physics exam is a very good idea - if he's got what it takes, he'll hopefully get in. If not, he might have found the course too challenging anyway.

Interesting about the essays at Birmingham -I hope most other physics courses don't have too many essays or my son will be horrified.

I agree with everyone who says that you should just study what you enjoy at university as noone has any idea what the job situation will be like in the years to come. I drifted into studying the new fangled computing thing at university, had a long time doing reasonably well in a support type role. Now I find, after redundancy, that I only seem to be fit for very poorly paid jobs, as it's (supposedly) something that everyone can do now!

I think once he gets place at Uni he should be able to improve his writing skills

I strongly believe his inability must be down to some fear. He ca ncomprehend as he obviously understands complex questions.

With a good tutor he would be able to improve in a matter of weeks, but then it needs to be someone who can communicate with him and build up a good rapport.

I find it interesting that he's always done so badly in English. I think a lot of it is down to thinking logically and not having a great deal of imagination. He takes forever to write a one paragraph thank you letter. But he can obviously write things down as he did very well with his science coursework which he managed by himself.

Also, his english teachers at secondary school always predicted much higher grades than he ever achieved, probably because he came over as a 'bright' boy. But again he's never put a lot of effort into practising strategies for writing better essays.