Scotland under Green Party leadership - your thoughts?

[EvelynBeatrice]

What would it be like?

I’m envisaging governance by people the majority of whom have never worked outside Scottish politics.

Dark unsafe streets - street lights and flood lighting of our historic buildings a waste of energy.

People openly shooting up on street corners - those not occupied by prostitutes. No prisons except for what they deem ‘violent crimes’, so presumably burglars and drug pushers free to ply their trade; shoplifting effectively decriminalised leading to fewer shops and choice - perhaps major chains pulling out.

The decamping over the Border of the higher rate taxpayers who don’t work for the state resulting in huge loss of tax revenue. Same for large companies. Presumably therefore massive increases in public borrowing?

Am I a pessimist?

I genuinely thought the one about Tibet was a pisstake.

I must have missed that gem. Do tell.

From page p132 of the Scottish Greens Manifesto -

https://greens.scot/sites/default/files/public/Scottish%20Greens%20Manifesto.pdf

'Provide direct support to the Tibetan Government-in-exile, such as financial support
and digital record keeping, recognising their role as the legitimate democratic representatives of the Tibetan people.'

(Edited to add that I should have clarified that I became aware of it in their general manifestos rather than it having been on the news programme you were watching)

Thanks @Waitwhat23 I've seen their manifesto described as bonkers which I think is a fairly accurate description!

The manifesto will come in handy if we have another shortage of loo paper.

I had hoped it was wrong but Mridul Wadhwa (who told rape survivors who needed single sex rape crisis services at ERCC to 'reframe their trauma') is standing as a Scottish Greens list candidate for the Edinburgh and Lothians East region.

I should be gobsmacked but I'm unsurprised given it's the Greens.

I have no words

I do!
There really isn’t a Trotskyist bandwagon destined to result in economic ruin, crime and misery that the Greens won’t enthusiastically jump on.

I genuinely don't know who to vote for. I want to vote Labour but they've been so shite for so long in Scotland and due to my rage against the SNP I can't cast a vote for them. Greens are insane. What happened to being a sensible, sustainable environmental party?!

Reform, no, bin, conservatives, hmmm, historically I'd say no but they have been the lone voices in Scottish parliament about women's rights and that is definitely something I'm keen to ensure is upheld, so I'll need to see who my local candidate is.

Haven’t scotttish Labour just announced they support single sex spaces in the terms clarified by the Supreme Court and will act to ensure all public bodies and hospitals implement it. Better than down south where they’re dragging their heels.

In other words Sarwar’s mum has had a word and he’s decided there are more votes in not forcing schoolgirls to share changing rooms with males.

I don’t have much time for Labour but they’ll get my vote if it helps to keep the SNP out in my constituency and I’ll think about the conservatives for the party list vote.

Like many people I’m having to vote ‘holding my nose’ but needs must to keep the nutters out from further ruining a country I love.

If the Libdems had any sense or gumption this would perhaps have been the best opportunity in history to come to the fore and appeal to the vast majority of us who are in the middle - genuinely ‘liberally’ incllined’!

But they’ve been very explicit that they don’t want the vote of the disreputable despicable people who don’t believe a trans woman is and should be treated as a woman for all purposes.

I can't see anyone apart from SNP winning my constituency.

Haven’t scotttish Labour just announced they support single sex spaces in the terms clarified by the Supreme Court and will act to ensure all public bodies and hospitals implement it. Better than down south where they’re dragging their heels

Equalities Law is entirely Reserved, so no matter what "Scottish" Labour say, like everything else Labour-related, any movement on this is entirely at the whim of the Westminster Labour party, so Sarwar and his clown troupe can say whatever they like but the reality is their statements are wholly inconsequential with regard to anything EA2010 related.

Yes but the act applies in Scotland too. And the supreme court judgement/ interpretation is binding as the highest court authority. So unless and until the Westminster Labour government change the act, the supreme court interpretation of it is legally correct and should be followed.

So if Scottish Labour say that they are going to enforce the judgement clarifying the Act in Scottish hospitals they can do so.

Yes but the act applies in Scotland too

Of course it does, but it's still entirely a Reserved policy area, nothing to do with Holyrood MSP's, so anything Anas Sarwar has to say on it is neither here nor there because he has no ability to "ensure" anything given that it's entirely outwith SG competence.

That’s not correct. The Scottish government - if Labour - has authority over the Scottish NHS and schools so if in power can choose to respect the law in Scotland.

No they can't, because Equalities Legislation is entirely Reserved to Westminster.

Essentially, all SL have done is repeat what the Westminster government have done in the past 24 hours, i.e. confirm the updated guidance will be published after the May elections, however, they're trying to pass this off as something SL will "facilitate" if they are elected to government, which is fundamentally dishonest because it's nothing to do with Holyrood Governance, not within SL's gift to bring about, and it's not as if they could do anything else in any case because they couldn't oppose it even if they wanted to.

They might as well be declaring Scottish Labour is going to continue with the sky being blue.

No, the NHS is Scotland and Scottish Schools are obliged to obey UK Law where and when necessary, which includes Equalities Legislation. It's absolutely nothing to do with Sarwar, Scottish Labour, or Holyrood,

I disagree. It doesn’t matter in this instance that equality law is reserved to Westminster. Because the existing law applies until it is changed in Westminster parliament. It is the Scottish parliament that determines how things work in Scottish prisons, schools, hospitals. They cannot be prevented legally from applying existing U.K. wide equality law ( as clarified by the Supreme Court in the FWS case) or drafting any policy or practice that conforms with it. Westminster have nothing to say in the matter unless and until the law is changed by them.

In other words Scottish Labour could if in power ignore the delays of the English Labour party in this area. But they are of course unlike to be in power and may not choose to do so.

I don't think you understand.

The "existing law" is EA2010, Scottish prisons, schools, and hospitals already have to comply with this. This is Reserved Legislation, it applies UK-wide, including in organisations which are otherwise controlled by Devolved Government.

Just because Holyrood sets policy in certain aspects of Devolved business, it does not mean the relevant Scottish organisations are no longer subject to any UK Law. There is no Scottish "Equalities Act" because this is a Reserved matter, so with regard to that specific aspect of governance Scottish organisations are still subject to the UK-wide, Westminster Reserved legislation.

It simply is not anything to do with Holyrood no matter the fact Health, Education, and Prison policy is Devolved, because Equalities Legislation is not Devolved.

Again, you don't seem to understand.

Scottish Labour could not "ignore" Westminster Equalities Legislation any more than it could go off forming a Scottish Armed Forces, or set up a Scottish Foreign Office, or a Scottish version of Mi5 and Mi6, because Equalities is entirely a Reserved matter, it applies UK-wide no matter what any Devolved government thinks of it, and no Devolved government has the authority to ignore it or over-ride it with policy of their own because it is not a Devolved policy area.

FWIW , there is no "English" Labour Party, there is just the Labour Party. Anas Sarwar and Keir Starmer are members of one and the same political party, which is why it's also a bit disingenuous of Sarwar to imply that this is something SL is going to bring about post-haste if elected to government on 7th May, because the only reason the EHRC guidance hasn't been released is because his own party has been sitting on it since September last year. John Swinney said months ago that he fully expects Scottish organisations to comply with the updated guidance as soon as it is forthcoming, so even in that regard, Sarwar is months late to the party, never mind the fact the only reason this is still up in the air is because of Sarwar's Labour colleagues dragging their feet.

Argh. I do understand perfectly.

You keep saying equalities legislation is not devolved. All that means is that the law is made in Westminster. It still binds and applies in Scotland if the relevant act is stated to apply in Scotland too.

The Equality Act applies in England and Scotland.

The Supreme Court has clarified the meaning of the Equality Act.

The judgement is binding and their interpretation stands ( all over the U.K.) unless and until the Westminster Parliament changes the Act or otherwise legislates to alter the law.

The Westminster government has chosen to delay implementation of the judgement on the spurious grounds that it is waiting for and reviewing EHRC guidance.

That guidance is a ‘nice to have’ but it is not technically required because the Equality act is clear and stands as law unless and until changed. Many legal commentators and the EHRC itself have said that public bodies should comply with the law as clarified by the Supreme Court judgement now - not to wait for the guidance.

There is nothing whatsoever to stop the Scottish government from implementing the law as it stands.

There is nothing whatsoever to stop the Scottish government from implementing the law as it stands

Except the total absence of any updated guidance from the EHRC, courtesy of Sarwar's Labour colleagues.

Presumably Scottish organisations are supposed to just wing it in the meantime, and the inevitable resulting legal shitstorms when they either get it wrong, or the public demonstrates it does not understand EA2010 does not apply to individual members of the public, will be laid at Labour's door...

Oh no they won't, it'll all be the fault of the SNP no doubt, even though this is a Reserved matter.

Again, John Swinney stated on the record months ago that the SG expects Scottish organisations to comply as soon as updated guidance is forthcoming, so Sarwar is yet again lagging behind.

But regardless, the claim is also specious because it simply is not up to the Scottish Government to "implement the Law" is this area, because it's not a Devolved Act. It's up to Scottish organisations to comply with UK Law, and up to the UK Government to oversee that they do.

@FunnyOrca Are you seriously suggesting that an SNP/Green coalition would be able to make a success of closing all our prisons and legalising Class A drugs and prostitution? They can't even build a ferry. Let's focus on the disasters that are the Scottish education system and the Scottish NHS, shall we? I note that the Greens want to abolish exams. Then maybe they'll move on to abolishing reading and writing. We're certainly heading in that direction.