Scottish government may introduce unlocked housing for young prisoners and nationalise secure care services.

[Scoffingbiscuits]

The Scottish government is extremely kind towards young convicted criminals. For example, until the age of 25, when they're sentenced the judge has to put what's in their best interests first and only sentence them to imprisonment as a last resort. This is what led to a young man convicted of raping a 13 year old girl in a park, twice, getting a community order to do 270 hours of community work.
It seems that they now want to make things pleasanter for young offenders who have, until now at least, been locked up for the safety of the community. It's short on detail as yet, but a warning of what's to come. The SNP are also looking at nationalising secure care services. A young person has to be very dangerous to end up locked up in Scotland these days, so let's hope that when secure care services are nationalised and the doors are unlocked all will go well for local communities.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15484349/SNP-want-young-thugs-therapeutic-hubs-no-locked-doors.html?i

It’s expensive to start with but saves money in the long run, when they aren’t repeat offenders costing time and resources not to mention the victims.

I remember reading about the case they had that was vaguely similar to James bulger, where the entire community felt they were to blame for letting the victim and the perpetrators down.

there would be zero appetite for it over here, we like the idea of punishment too much.

“What's disgusting is that the system allows young men who commit rapes, even the rapes of young girls, to go without any meaningful punishment.”

It doesn’t, both I and several others have tried to explain this to you.

”In my local community there are constant complaints about vandalism - teenage boys simply wrecking things for the fun of it.”

This has always happened, there is far less vandalism now than there was in the 80’s

”Apparently the police know who these teenage boys are, but are powerless to do anything to stop them”

No they’re not, again I’ve already posted the measures that the police, social work and courts can take.

”The boys feel, and apparently are, invulnerable.”

Look forward to any proof of this.

”local schoolchildren also drop litter all over the place and no-one requires them to pick it up.”

It isn’t just schoolchildren, as much litter gets thrown out of cars, having volunteered to pick a lot of it up I’m very aware, we do have a cultural problem with litter in the uk.

Only 1 in over 1000 pupils get expelled in England so I really don’t see how this makes much of a difference.

So under the England model, instead of having zero or one expulsion per year in Scottish schools, there would be roughly 1,000 expulsions. That's a thousand violent bullies who would no longer be in the school where they attacked other children or teachers. Don't you think that would make a difference to those schools?

Despite prompting, you still haven't commented on the Scottish "diversion from prosecution" policy, which allows the prosecution service simply to cancel a criminal trial if, for instance, the male charged with rape would miss out on a football scholarship if he was convicted?
In our area, adults are asked to volunteer to pick up the litter thrown on and around the school grounds by secondary school children. Another lesson learned.
I've just checked our local Facebook page - apparently the police say that the vandalism is carried out by children who are under the age of criminal responsibility (which has recently been raised to 12 in Scotland), so that they are powerless to act. Whether that's true or not I don't know, obviously. I'd guess that vandals don't stop vandalising as soon as they turn 12, but perhaps they're so scared of the justice system catching up with them that they do.

There is a trend in the Scottish government for looking at Scandinavia (and I'm sure we all think there's a lot to admire about Scandinavia), picking out a random policy from their education or criminal justice system and deciding to run with it in Scotland. But there are enormous differences between those countries and the UK. Just throwing odd policies and practices from those countries at Scotland doesn't work. There's ample proof of this.

what is REALLY important is that justice is seen to have been done if pupil is excluded, and those who might have thought about mindlessly battering a child might think again. I remember my daughter coming home from school (P6) outraged her friend was getting beaten up day after day by the same little shit.

The teaching staff were well aware it was going on and said to the group of parents that complained that the wee shit had a tough home life and measures were being taken to discuss his actions with the child that they cannot discuss. The measures made absolutely no difference whatsoever as the beatings continued, and the message to the other kids was beat up who you like, no one does anything about it, teachers don’t care, your safeguarding means nothing to them, you don’t deserve protection. Nice.

This is JUST the argument some SNP supporters on Twitter was making about the Glasgow hospital scandal. Barely anyone died, what’s the big deal, move on etc etc. The scandals people turn a blind eye to as they don’t want to call out the Scottish government are shocking! Getting beaten up at school affects you emotionally for the rest of your life.

None of that is relevant to anything that was said.

As I’ve pointed out there are no shortage of generic SNP Bashing threads, I know you somehow think you’re being clever but you lack the capability to debate one subject without resorting to general rhetoric.

Yeah, absolutely none of that happened.

Teachers do not share confidential information about children’s home life.

You’re just making up stories now.

Yes, the main difference is Scandinavians accept that high tax is needed for high quality services.

They also in general have governments that tend to look after their own people.

There wouldn’t be anywhere near 1000.

There would be around 700.

Or 1 pupil would be expelled for every 3.4 Schools.

So no, I don’t think it would make a huge difference for the majority of pupils.

So can you please explain why violence in schools is worse in Scotland than England?

You have answered none of my questions so maybe take your own ‘prompting’.

Amused though that you think I have any enlightening comments on the diversion from prosecution situation.

Exactly the same as the last case you were highlighting, the legal system and individuals in it don’t get everything right, but this seems to be an isolated case, which is why it is newsworthy.

Genuinely getting tired of explaining these things to you, you won’t consider facts despite the evidence I and others have shown.

Ultimately as Johnathan Swift said "You cannot reason people out of something they were not reasoned into.", and you haven’t came to your conclusions by thinking or reasoning, you’re a walking Daily Mail Headline, fallen into a cycle of blaming and rage without being capable of understanding.

Not repeating myself again, feel free to read previous posts on pulled support services.

School I went to had 1000 pupils and it wasn’t a big school, it only takes one person to make your life a misery.
And as I said the ideology of making the world revolve around one vile shit at the expense of everyone else is prevalent in England too but at least expulsion is an option

They bloody well did! On his second foster carer apparently. Maybe they weren’t supposed to but they were facing down an irate parent and were trying to explain that they were having to deal with a kids lashing out and there was nothing they could do as the child was in care and had special ‘rights’. This happened with two different incidents at secondary school too. The teachers trying to explain why the violent child cannot be removed from the class and those they choose to beat up have to move classes. Apparently if you’re in care you’re pretty much untouchable under a Scottish government pledge to let kids in care beat up whoever they like with zero consequences. I mean I get that being in care is traumatic and the child will be lashing out, but the minute they start attacking others they ought to be removed. You’d have thought. But no.

I feel sorry for you. You’re constantly trying to defend the indefensible. I don’t get why though. Surely you can see how disgusting theee policies are? Condoning violence. It’s grim.

Violence and disruption to today’s levels was certainly not commonplace in any schools prior to the 70s. What do you think has changed? How do you explain the increase?

You are wrong if you think that I’m coming from a right wing ‘hang em and flog em’ mentality. I genuinely believe that we are failing the perpetrators most of all. If we fail to teach them the basics of civilised behaviour at school, they’re pretty much doomed.

Every childcare and psychological theory for the past 50 years has emphasised the importance of conveying clear behavioural expectations and of enforcing them. The difficulty is that unless you’re able to impose a sanction that genuinely causes inconvenience or upset to the perpetrator, there is no effective sanction.

I've not see you post any data showing Scottish support services are worse than in England. If there are no consequences for misbehaviour and violence in childhood how does a child learn to behave?

This sounds horrible, but, if this approach ultimately reduces reoffending, then despite how much it would stick in by throat, I'd be all for it.
I don't suppose there's any data to look at yet though?