Scottish Borders or Dumfries and Galloway for move from England?

[KievLoverTwo]

Hi all,

I am picking the brain of my almost Glasgow resident friend for opinions, but I thought I'd better ask more folks.

The OH and I would like to move to Scotland. We had kind of settled on the Borders as location (after seeing it on the telly - how very original of us) - firstly, because my OH has always been absolutely infatuated with Scotland, and secondly because we don't really have anything tying us to England anymore. We've been looking at houses for 14 months as well, the English prices are just still far too high for our needs (400-450k for something half decent - due to disability we need around 1200+ sq ft and at least three bedrooms, two of which have to be large doubles).

So, I just wanted to get some opinions on some pros and cons of either location, really, please.

We don't need schools, nor public transport. We don't need a massive town for shopping near us, I'd actually prefer somewhere with a decent butcher, fishmonger, grocer etc, or access to a really decent farm shop within an hour. As long as we can have freezers in a garage they don't even really need to be all that close to us. I think I'd prefer not to be desperately isolated and remote at this point. We've spent 2.5 years being remote in rentals and I do miss people a little bit. His office is in Manchester but he's not all that fussed about what sort of faff it takes him to go in, because it's so infrequent (he tells me Lockerbie has a direct train to Manchester though).

It would be nice to have a little garden but nothing vast.

We're trying to keep costs down because a) we're old and this is our first house, we need to seriously work on our pensions - ages 48 and 42). I don't and can't work, so whilst he earns high, there's one income for retirement planning. We will move with a small amount of savings above 10% deposit*. He's going to get whacked hard for extra tax in moving to Scotland (which I've no problem with, I'm just trying to be pragmatic about the future).

*not moving is not an option; the pair of us are borderline going postal in our current rental and he absolutely will not rent again

We found a house we like in Peebles, I've seen a house I quite like in Coldstream, and one that would just about do for a few years in Kelso (which would have a v low mortgage, but also zero garden and the ground floor is maybe a bit too snug). Then we happened upon D&G whilst looking at where my mate lives, and I can't believe how much cheaper it is than Borders.

So I guess I'm really looking at views of why one location might be better or worse than another and opinions on locations please, really.

I'd happily go further North (and we might end up in the highlands in 10 years' time), but I'm trying to be realistic: there are vast weather differences (we're in NW England), and we should probably ease ourselves into the cold gently! Plus he can always say to work 'well I can get to work quicker from X than I can from our rental' if they object to him moving to Scotland. Which sort of has to be a semi consideration for now, because his industry lost 300k people last year, and are due to lose 150k this year.

Thanks for any and all thoughts.

(I suppose I would be most comfortable with a max budget of 300k due to the tax differences)

Oh, and I loathe new builds with a passion, if that's of any relevance at all :)

(not very good at being brief, am I? Sorry! Thanks again)

Peebles is great. Really thriving and vibrant. Dumfries in the other hand is very very run down. There are better places in D&G but on the whole it’s a lot less economically vibrant than somewhere like Peebles so it all depends what you are looking for. Personally I find Dumfries really sad and only getting sadder unfortunately. It’s quite heartbreaking.

I'd agree with the post above. Dumfries itself is very run down. Out of the two I'd choose the Borders. Sone really nice towns there.

Agree SB is much better. Peebles is amazing, Melrose is lovely too .

Love the Borders - Peebles is lovely and so is Melrose!!

My friend said Peebles is full of old people! I said 'good, I love old people.' The sod.

I'm finding it exceptionally hard to decide if I want a bigger, better house or lots more people, things to do and facilities around me.

Sorry to hear you find it sad :(

We've both lived in quite a few places like that. I guess it would be nice to be somewhere buzzing and where people actually want to live, rather than have to, for a change.

Maybe we just need to take the financial hit and get over it.

Check out Tweedbank too. Very near Melrose, but you have the advantage of the train station.

The Borders are lovely, we lived in a wee village not far from Melrose for a couple of years while I was working in Tweedbank then we moved to the Highlands.Melrose was lovely as was Kelso, but that was over twenty years ago, I don't know what it's like now, but there some beautiful little villages in that area.I'd love to go back to live but other half not keen as he has family there that he doesn't get along with.

I agree. D&G is very run down compared to the Borders.

Dumfries itself is run down, yes, but a bit west is lovely and the weather is even better! For eg Kirkcubright is a lively little town, with good shopping and not so far from Dumfries that it’s doable to get the train without too much trouble.

I don't know much of the areas but you've had loads of advice already. Just here to mention (as wasn't something I had realised when living outside Scotland) that it's not just income tax that's more up here - have you seen the difference in stamp duty - called LBTT in Scotland? It's a lot more than England. Which makes things difficult with a small deposit/savings.

I too would recommend SB over D&G.
They are very different places.
PP have already mentioned some lovely places in SB. Would you also consider the east coast? Some wonderful beaches in the north berwick area and decent access to Edinburgh.

As for D&G, you really need to consider the weather. You might think you are used to rain but it's another level in D&G. It never stops. It's a beautiful area, particularly further west, but you often can't see a lot because of the mist and rain. Also don't forget to turn your clock back 50 years. I'll just say the people tend to be not very progressive. I also noticed a lot of low level depression, likely linked in part at least to the weather. People become trapped there and can't find a way out.

I'd happily move back to SB but D&G: never.

It is much nicer down that way, but still a 40 minute drive to Dumfries, and a very slow train to Glasgow. Public transport is minimal, as are taxi services. Beautiful part of the world, and overlooked, but very far from everywhere. Nearest hospital also in Dumfries, which is a consideration for retiring down there. Pretty much two hour drive to Glasgow, nearly three to Edinburgh, over an hour to Carlisle.

I get your point about hospitals, but the train goes from Dumfries to Carlisle/Manchester so not that bad I thought. Also the weather, I'm on that coast and hadn't noticed it particularly wetter than north England; perhaps the actual coast is better? Anyway, just musings...

Would you also consider the east coast? Some wonderful beaches in the north berwick area and decent access to Edinburgh.

I'm not sure. We're about six miles inland in the NW and we regularly get battered with winds that creep my other half out. It never stops; not even in summer. I'd sort of been giving the coast a wide berth for this reason.

used to rain but it's another level in D&G.

It hasn't stopped raining for 10 months where I am now! But this is still good to know, thanks.

Also don't forget to turn your clock back 50 years.

Oh, ick. It would be nice to get away from that, not delve further into it.

I also noticed a lot of low level depression, likely linked in part at least to the weather.

Makes sense, and definitely worth bearing in mind.

Yes, I know about the higher SDLT, thank you. It seems more sensible and measured than in England, where house prices are regularly boosted with stupid home mover incentives.

I think they've both been on my radar but I haven't found housing stock I like there yet.

Could I have people's opinions on:

Kelso

Coldstream

Galashiels

Selkirk

Hawick

and also the East Coast, please?

Many thanks. Some really useful replies in this thread thus far.

RE weather - in the U.K. wind and rain are generally worse on the west coast than the east, because of the Atlantic winds. So don’t discount the east coast just because you had a bad experience living west before

I’m originally from D&G. There’s a thriving arts community and I don’t really recognise the “not progressive” characterisation of a PP. My favourite place is Thornhill which has has a beautiful location and loads of faculties for a small town. 13 miles from Dumfries so if you need to access a Tesco Metro and a large hospital you have it and there isn’t the congestion to get through to get that there is in other places. Moniaive and New Galloway are lovely too but less accessible.

Driving miles on country roads in the dark, rain, snow or ice is horrible. A public transport option would be better for a long term move.

Also, I grew up right in the Solway coast and the view from my bedroom window was the hills of the Lake District, yes it rains but I live on the East coast now and it’s been pissing down for weeks.

As a taster, if you have time you could try the annual Spring Fling artist open studio event which is on soon https://www.spring-fling.co.uk/ or the Knockengorroch music festival https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knockengorroch

D&G is beautiful but unless you're in Dumfries it's all a bit remote. The Borders less remote, unless you go beyond Hawick.

Of your list I think Kelso and Gala meet your needs - Gala seems to be on the up after years in the doldrums, the railway and tapestry have definitely made a difference. I work in tourism in the area and we're seeing a lot more interest. Less than an hour to Edinburgh, good choice of shopping, lots of nice places within a few miles - Melrose, St Boswells, Kelso, Jedburgh, Peebles, Selkirk etc. it's really the centre of the Borders. Plus glorious landscapes - if you're outdoors people there's nowhere better. Lots going on arts and entertainment wise too, book and music festivals, rugby sevens, plenty of local music and theatre.

Selkirk is nice enough but doesn't have the facilities.

Kelso - really nice, decent shopping, closer to the coast and not too far from Edinburgh. Think house prices are higher than Gala.

Coldstream, don't know too well, sorry.

Hawick - I wouldn't. House prices much lower reflecting remote location and 'incomers' can be viewed with suspicion, even now.

Biggar? I'd dismiss North Berwick if you want your budget to stretch far

Oh, and I wouldn't live in Tweedbank - it's a bit soulless.

Also Moffat is a lovely place, close to the motorway and there are decent train connections from Lockerbie down the road (which I wouldn’t recommend).