Scottish Borders or Dumfries and Galloway for move from England?

[KievLoverTwo]

Hi all,

I am picking the brain of my almost Glasgow resident friend for opinions, but I thought I'd better ask more folks.

The OH and I would like to move to Scotland. We had kind of settled on the Borders as location (after seeing it on the telly - how very original of us) - firstly, because my OH has always been absolutely infatuated with Scotland, and secondly because we don't really have anything tying us to England anymore. We've been looking at houses for 14 months as well, the English prices are just still far too high for our needs (400-450k for something half decent - due to disability we need around 1200+ sq ft and at least three bedrooms, two of which have to be large doubles).

So, I just wanted to get some opinions on some pros and cons of either location, really, please.

We don't need schools, nor public transport. We don't need a massive town for shopping near us, I'd actually prefer somewhere with a decent butcher, fishmonger, grocer etc, or access to a really decent farm shop within an hour. As long as we can have freezers in a garage they don't even really need to be all that close to us. I think I'd prefer not to be desperately isolated and remote at this point. We've spent 2.5 years being remote in rentals and I do miss people a little bit. His office is in Manchester but he's not all that fussed about what sort of faff it takes him to go in, because it's so infrequent (he tells me Lockerbie has a direct train to Manchester though).

It would be nice to have a little garden but nothing vast.

We're trying to keep costs down because a) we're old and this is our first house, we need to seriously work on our pensions - ages 48 and 42). I don't and can't work, so whilst he earns high, there's one income for retirement planning. We will move with a small amount of savings above 10% deposit*. He's going to get whacked hard for extra tax in moving to Scotland (which I've no problem with, I'm just trying to be pragmatic about the future).

*not moving is not an option; the pair of us are borderline going postal in our current rental and he absolutely will not rent again

We found a house we like in Peebles, I've seen a house I quite like in Coldstream, and one that would just about do for a few years in Kelso (which would have a v low mortgage, but also zero garden and the ground floor is maybe a bit too snug). Then we happened upon D&G whilst looking at where my mate lives, and I can't believe how much cheaper it is than Borders.

So I guess I'm really looking at views of why one location might be better or worse than another and opinions on locations please, really.

I'd happily go further North (and we might end up in the highlands in 10 years' time), but I'm trying to be realistic: there are vast weather differences (we're in NW England), and we should probably ease ourselves into the cold gently! Plus he can always say to work 'well I can get to work quicker from X than I can from our rental' if they object to him moving to Scotland. Which sort of has to be a semi consideration for now, because his industry lost 300k people last year, and are due to lose 150k this year.

Thanks for any and all thoughts.

(I suppose I would be most comfortable with a max budget of 300k due to the tax differences)

Oh, and I loathe new builds with a passion, if that's of any relevance at all :)

(not very good at being brief, am I? Sorry! Thanks again)

Have you considered the Moray Firth? Far better weather than most of Scotland but the scenery is proper Highland Scotland.

It's funny - I think of the north of England as much cheaper than the bits of Scotland I'd live in. I often fantasy house-hunt there. I wonder if it's just my lack of familiarity with the area means I see cheaper places and don't know the difference between them and fancier places.

Peebles and similar don't tend to be cheap due to the relative proximity to Edinburgh. I think your money will go further in D&G than the Borders

Possibly. Really, the only area in the North that has pretty cheap properties in abundance still is County Durham. And of County Durham, very few of those places are areas I would chose to move to. There are a lot of pit villages that have had absolutely no investment since the mines closed.

Eg

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION%5E512&sortType=1&propertyTypes=&includeSSTC=false&mustHave=&dontShow=&furnishTypes=&keywords=

and

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION%5E1203&sortType=1&propertyTypes=&includeSSTC=false&mustHave=&dontShow=&furnishTypes=&keywords=

I live in Lancashire and pay £1600 a month rent! If my LL put it back on the market now, it would be priced at £1900, I imagine.

Even places which were known to be very cheap for many years such as Middlesborough have rapidly risen in value over the last 4 years. Covid and the stamp duty holiday meant prices across most of England rose by 30% in 3 years.

(and, because of this, prices are now often pushed up when a paper publishes '10 cheapest places to live in England' articles)

Borderer here. Peebles is an Edinburgh commuting large town, brilliant town centre with shops still on the high Street and farmers market unlike most other towns, that would be my first choice. They have lots of 'incomers' so you'll fit in fine.

Coldstream, absolutely tiny, not much more than one street which has the main road running through it. Parking is impossible and some locals will be 5th generation "Jock Tamson's bairn" and your decendents will have to live there about 200 hundred years before you're no longer an incomer....No facilities in terms of shops.

Kelso, lovely traditional town, nice shops and handy for heading to North East England and train to Edinburgh is about 25 minutes car journey away.

Must avoid -

Hawick is the drugs capital of the Borders.

Selkirk, pokey little place with next to no shops, industrial sized cannabis farms crop up all over the town in empty buildings.

Galashiels - miserable place, whole town centre is void of shops. Locals are the most negative complaining folk ever. Never happy and whatever improvements are made, eg Coucil spent £100'sK on an amazing playpark and it was getting vandalised within 24hrs of opening.

Jedburgh - too far away from anywhere.

Other options - Melrose/Darnick/Gattonside area - poshest town in the Borders. People there take so much pride in the town and 5 minutes away from the train station. Gorgeous independent shops and a lovely Abbey. Would be my first choice, house prices are higher here but nothing like down south.

Fair enough. I live in an expensive part of a popular town (semi detached house worth about £650k), but which my colleagues in Edinburgh think is very cheap as they're all in flats worth £650k... So it's all about perspective. We went to Cumbria last year and I was listing after the massive, beautiful farmhouses at £650k although realistically they're not near anything particularly useful.

If I could live anywhere in Scotland I'd probably choose Perthshire or the East Neuk. Anywhere in England I'd choose Northumberland. Good luck with your move! Hopefully you like it in Scotland. We're so lucky in the UK, loads of lovely places to live!

How about Biggar? South Lanarkshire but literally a mile from SB. Quite a nice wee town with decent enough independent shops & cafes. 20 mins from Peebles, 40 mins Edinburgh, same Glasgow. House prices risen considerably over the last 10 years as its commuter belt for the two cities.

I drove through Biggar for the first time in years and was struck by how pretty it was. They had put up bunting for something and I'm a sucker for bunting 😀

I know a lot of the Border places you mention and a D&G only a little. Have family in / around several places you mention.

to pick two on your list

Kelso is great - really decent size. Has everything you need. Nice people (in my experience). And beautiful surroundings ofc. Striking distance of Edinburgh but it isn’t a quick easy drive.

Coldstream is very very different. Small town, nowhere near as many amenities. On the border and about 25 mins to Berwick which gives you good train access south and north.

overall a beautiful, accessible and (in my experience) friendly part of the world that is not unwelcoming of newcomers. But would highly recommend spending a good amount of time getting to know area first - distances / journey times can be lengthy and amenities really differ from place to place.

I know this is an apartment but this area is lovely https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/145686884#/?channel=RES_BUY

I’m talking about income tax I frequently hear people say “you pay so much more income tax in Scotland than England”. But not according tonListen To Tax Man.
My council tax for a higher band than friends are payer in England is lower because water and sewage are included.

Council tax seems to be universally lower across Scotland than England.

Stamp Duty is higher, but I think it should be, because the all that happens in the English market with our stamp duty holidays is they stimulate the market, and house prices rocket.

As to actual tax. Well, he's on a six figure salary. His take-home will be £345 a month less.

Added to that, in England, if you start pumping more money into your pension, they lower the amount of tax you pay as a result. That doesn't happen in Scotland.

I think high earners should pay more tax, it's the right thing to do, but we just have to be a bit tighter than I would like to be with a home purchase, as a result (esp as I can't earn).

It wouldn't matter if we were in our 30s!

This is really useful, thank you.

Well, you've really set the cat amongst the pigeons!

I got straight on Rightmove and within 10 minutes, found 6 properties that I would like to buy.

The question is, just how tied to needing to get to Manchester occasionally is he?

He also said 'there's nothing there, there's Inverness, which is about the size of Dartford, but otherwise x is 2 hours and y is 3 hours and'

'Yeah, but what do you NEED? A butcher, a grocer, a farm shop, we don't even go into x major town near us, like, ever.'

I'd say it's city boy afraid of the countryside syndrome, but it's really not. We've been living in the arse end of nowhere for three years and have coped. But he is quite familiar with the area because he travels up and around Aviemore quite a lot and has done for at least a decade.

Shakes fists

The properties are beautiful and affordable up there.

But, what's this about it being better weather than much of Scotland please? It's right on the North Sea. I'd have thought that would mean blistering cold and wind (perhaps paranoid because we're on the West coast).

The Moray Firth is a micro climate. It is far warmer and sunnier than the rest of Scotland. In fact, according to the Met Office, it was the sunniest place in Scotland over the last Winter.

The train situation is good from Inverness - straight to Edinburgh or Glasgow with connections from there. Inverness also has an airport with direct flights. https://www.loganair.co.uk/en-gb/flights-from-inverness-to-manchester

There are plenty of wee villages with butcher/baker/grocer set up as well as farm shops. The area is seriously agricultural due to the better weather. Findhorn has great pubs! 😂

Apologies I am going to read back.

Thing that jumps is a train from Lockerbie when living in borders.

Thats quite a commute.

If I was getting a train anywhere from here I would be going to Berwick or tweedbank, Edinburgh then wherever. Unless I was going newcastle way.

About two hours assuming clear roads to Lockerbie from Kelso

@TerriPie accurate, you should work for right move

The only other Scottish micro climate that comes to mind is in Plockton but it seriously in the middle of nowhere.

Would agree with comments about choosing the borders over Dumfries.

If you like remote head Jedburgh Melrose direction, personally Peebles and biggar give me the willies . Avoid a house that doesn’t get any light in winter due to the hills

Peebles and biggar give me the willies

LOL! Why?!

Inverness is a major city !

If you lived in aviemore it's the major city serving your needs same as if you are on the moray firth

Travel to Manchester would be nuts though - I'd guess an extra 3 to 4 hrs cf some places in the borders or D&G

Gala isn't devoid of shops at all ! It's actually quite a useful shopping centre . I guess it all depends what you are coming from and what you need. it's practical rather than quaint .

Melrose is quaint - its shops are probably kept afloat by tourists .

Coldstream is much smaller than gala hence it has less stuff . It has a lot more than one street through and most residents would park at their home not outside the coop. Like Jedburgh it's too small for its own supermarket ( the coop is expensive ) but all towns are served by online shopping. - Asda tescos sainsburys and Morrisons deliver to all I think . Butchers and bakers are common , fruit and veg stores less so

Hawick does have a dreadful reputation but I know delightful people who live there and they are very happy .

Selkirk seems to have less overall but it's very close to gala . Parking in Selkirk.can be tricky and the traffic is surprisingly bad. ( you may have to wait before you can get across the road )

Like many of the border villages it does have a market once a month , gala does from memory . From a wildlife perspective I think that's the best location.

In terms of getting to Manchester - if you go by train you want to be close to Carlisle or Berwick - tweedbank ( currently) only runs to Edinburgh which is an hour the wrong way

By car think distance to A1 or M74 - average speed in general is 30mph otherwise

Dumfries and Galloway is lovely. Thornhill, Lockerbie, castle Douglas, Kirkcudbright lovely small towns with good amenities. Dumfries high street is very depressing but the town is quite well served out with that with butchers, bakers, etc. plenty GP's, dentists can be a issue, nice new hospital and we get. Very good care here compared to cities I have worked in.
I find the borders snobby but admittedly have never lived there. There seems to be quite a divide between the haves and have nots in the borders which seems less in your face in Dumfries and Galloway.

How about Coldingham..beautiful beach and cliff walks, nice wee place. It’s about 20 mins from
Berwick for big shops and the train.